Speaker 1    00:00:03    Welcome to Water for Fighting, where we discuss the past, present, and future of water in Florida with the people who make it happen. I'm your host, Brett Syphers. I've spent 20 years working with and getting to know the people who've made water, their life's work, and I created this podcast to allow you, the listener, to get to know them as well. Since this is our first podcast, A few notes on what this show is and is not. The object of this show is to get people beyond the abbreviated soundbites in two line quotes and or provide a long form vehicle that allows us to get to know the guest, not just serve an agenda. To that end, the title Water for Fighting is a bit of a misnomer because my goal is to do very little actual fighting. I want the guest on my show to talk about their experiences and opinions as they wish to express them, not as I wish them to.  
Speaker 1    00:00:49    Though I may challenge guests to offer deeper insights and provide more clarity, I see my role as more of a facilitator, not an opponent. And though I may disagree with certain opinions or policy prescriptions offered by my guest, I leave it to you, the listener, to determine what you take away from these conversations in the end. Now, that's out of the way onto the good part. In my mind, it's only fitting that my first guest is someone who could easily be described as the Godfather of water management in Florida. An interesting title for someone originally from Texas. I'm talking about Henry Dean, and if you've been around water issues over the last 40 years, you know who he is. Henry has a distinction of serving under five Florida governors, beginning with Ruben Ascu and ending with Jeb Bush. Henry was the first person to head up two different water management districts in his career, the St.  
Speaker 1    00:01:36    Johns River Water Management District, and the South Florida Water Management District before retiring in 2005. Henry now serves as the county commissioner in St. Johns County and was kind enough to spend some time with me talking about some of the history of water management in Florida. Again, this is my first shot at recording a podcast, so try to forgive my feelings as a podcaster and an interviewer. I'll get better, and for whatever I lack and skill my guest more than makes up for this with his invaluable experience and wisdom. Let's jump right into our conversation in progress. Were you doing any work? You were, you came. One, one thing I found was, was funny, uh, I asked Frank cuz I was looking at your bio, um, that you're kind enough to send, and I said, Henry is Henry from Iowa. He said, yeah. I said, there's no way that accent is from Iowa. And he said, I don't know. It's like, I think <laugh>. Um, and so it, it took until you did the, uh, that oral history with those two fellows from University of Florida, that made a lot more sense. Uh, you're from Abilene, Texas, right?  
Speaker 2    00:02:41    <laugh>? Yeah, that's where I was born and raised. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah.  
Speaker 1    00:02:44    But you finished high school in Iowa, is that right? Or did  
Speaker 2    00:02:47    You Yeah, the, I'll give you the Quick Reader's Digest version. So I was the result of a World War II romance <laugh>. My mother was an Iowa Farm girl that upon graduation from nursing, college of nursing, she joined the Army the next day and served three years in the Army Air Corps as an army Air Corps nurse on Adac, one of the Ellucian Islands. And met my father who was from Abilene, Texas. And they struck up a romance, got married. But in 1945, you didn't go back to the wife's hometown, you went to the man's hometown, the husband. So they got married and went back to his hometown of Abilene, Texas. And then I was born in 47 and, uh, we lived in Abilene until 1962. So when I turned the summer, I turned 15, and before I started 10th grade, uh, they, they decided to move to Iowa back to her home state since she'd grown up on an Iowa farm.  
Speaker 2    00:03:51    And that's when I went to high school and then stayed in Iowa City and went to the University of Iowa to college. And the entire time I, uh, complained about the, uh, blizzards each winter getting worse and worse and worse. So as I was finishing college, I made a conscious decision that if there's any way I could pull it off, I was gonna do two things. I was gonna move to Florida and I was gonna go to law school. And I was fortunate enough to get accepted to FSU law school and started in the fall of 71, which coincidentally is 50 years ago last fall. So, uh, that's how I ended up from Texas to Iowa to Florida. Uh, but with the full intent of when I moved to Florida to start law school, the full intent of staying in Florida, not going back to the Iowa Blizzards.  
Speaker 1    00:04:49    Okay. Was that, was that pre intended? So you, you go from Iowa's like, I'm getting out of the blizzards, I'm going to Florida for law school. Was there something other than just staying out of the cold that drew you? Was, was there something about the Florida environment, um, that you thought about when you were either at school or before  
Speaker 2    00:05:08    You got here? Well, that's a, a very interesting question with a kind of an interesting answer. When I was in college in 1967, I was in my, either sophomore or junior year, it doesn't matter, but in the, in the, in the summer of 67, I had a buddy from Chicago I met that was at the University of Iowa. But he was from Chicago and his, his family for a number of years when he was growing up, took from Chicago a summer vacation to the Keys, but Big Pine Key. And, but to be specific. And so for the first time in his life, his father was gonna let him take the boat by himself cuz he was now 20 years old. And he invited me, he said, have you ever been to Florida? Nope, never been. No, never been. Well want to go on this trip.  
Speaker 2    00:06:00    And so in August of 67, he, his younger brother and myself and one of his other close friends, four of us, we trailered a 16 and a half foot Boston Whaler from Chicago down to Miami. And we sailed in this 16 and a half foot Boston trailer across the Gulf Stream over to Benet. Stayed three nights, three days, three nights at Benet. Had the time of my life, had never saw anything like it in my life. Then we came back to Miami and trailered it down to Big Pine Key. Spent three days, three nights on Big Pine Key at the old Wooden Bridge fishing lodge, which I think is still there. And the old wooden bridge goes over to, uh, no name key, but it's no longer there. It got lost in a storm. So I went back to Iowa and I said, that's when I made the conscious decision that if there's any way, I mean, I'd never had as much fun in my life, is that trip to both BI and Big Pine Key.  
Speaker 2    00:07:00    And so I was on a mission at that point to move to Florida. And I also had, uh, a desire to go to law school, but for no particular specific reason. I wasn't thinking about corporate law, personal injury law, any, I I just thought it would be good to have a law degree. And, uh, I do remember thinking that, um, the year that I started law school and decided to apply to law school first, I actually had read a, a magazine article about the opening soon to open Disney World in Orlando and looking out at it now. And, uh, I thought, you know, Florida with Disney now, cuz Disneyland in LA had been a real big success that if Disney World really does as well as Disneyland, there's gonna be a lot of growth and a lot of development and a lot of activity that I might be a part of.  
Speaker 2    00:07:58    But I wasn't necessarily thinking government. I was thinking more of private attorney work, but all that together, if that makes sense. That's what between the weather and the idea of living in Florida in a beautiful state and with growth potential mm-hmm. <affirmative> is what, uh, led me to again, uh, apply to fsu. And I also applied to fsu. That's the only school I applied to. And the reason is, it was at the Capitol. And I thought that if, if you're going to move to a new state and you're gonna be a lawyer, it'd be good to learn as much as possible. You got the Supreme Court, the legislature, the governor's office, you, you could learn a little bit about not only history, but also what current affairs. So all that led me to, uh, start law school at fsu.  
Speaker 1    00:08:45    And I guess that's where kind of that the, the story starts, doesn't it? It's, you had this, uh, you had enormous career that continues now on a different way as an an elected official. Um, but tell me about where you go from law school and the idea that you got, uh, the legislature, the capitals there, the Supreme Court. Uh, was it by happenstance or did you meet someone, a professor in law school that turned you on to the politics side of it?  
Speaker 2    00:09:13    Who, well, yes, uh, but it was more, it was more introducing me to, uh, growth management and land use and property rights, property values versus the public interest in the whole issue of growth management. When I started law school, I was, uh, one of the first courses you take as a freshman is real property. And, uh, the general, I guess, uh, normal, uh, way to teach real property is you learn about fee simple and how property contracts are drawn up and how you pass property from A to B. That's sort of real property, freshman law school, real property. But we had a very interesting real property professor. His name was Gil Fennel, and he was oddly enough from Texas where I grew up. And so we immediately bonded because we both had grown up in Texas. He was a brilliant scholar and knew everything there was to know about real property.  
Speaker 2    00:10:15    But he also was interested in growth management, land use, and sort of the public interest in having a healthy, clean, uh, you know, quality life, uh, for the public. We would have conversations between classes in the, uh, law school, uh, in this little, uh, lounge, the student lounge where you sit around, have a cup of coffee and some guys are playing bridge, others are talking politics. Gill and I would talk about what's going on in Florida in 1972, what's needed to make sure that we try to control growth and have good quality, well-planned orderly growth. As I was finishing real property my freshman year of law school in the spring of 72, as you well know, the legislature passed landmark legislation that spring in 1972, the Water Resources Act, which added the three additional water management districts that already Swift mud in South Florida were in existence under special act for different reasons, flood control and prior years.  
Speaker 2    00:11:19    So Water Resources Act, the Land and Water Management Act, which was codified in chapter three 80. And, uh, the first, uh, the first legislation dealing with the idea of having a, uh, state comprehensive plan, chapter 23, all those things were literally created in the 72 legislation. Pieces of different pieces of legislation. And a lot of people refer to that as sort of the landmark year of, uh, environmental legislation in Florida. And I'll never forget my old friend, Wade Hopping, who was a long-term private attorney representing a lot of business interests, uh, called it an apparition <laugh>. But he and I joked about that. But nevertheless, so fennel, Gil Fennel, the professor, um, really got my interest peaked. And so when there was a job opening, and I saw it on the law school bulletin board, a job opening for a research aid for needed for the ELMS committee.  
Speaker 1    00:12:16    What is the  
Speaker 2    00:12:16    ELMS committee? The ELMS committee, it was a creation, it wasn't a standing committee, which exists as you well know, for year in year and year in and year out forever. It was a select or special committee created for two years. And it was created as part of that landmark legislation in 72. The ELMS committee was the Environmental Land Management Study Committee, ELMS for short. And so it was a two year committee to look at any issues that the committee deemed very important and critical to growth management in Florida. And come up with a final report to the legislature in December of 73 to take action, uh, in the 74 legislative session. That was the sort of time clock they were given. So that committee was created as part of the 72 Landmark legislation. So I guess not only am I a result of a World War II romances, but I'm the result of the crea of the landmark legislation and the creation of the Elms committee, cuz that's where I got my first start.  
Speaker 2    00:13:20    When the ELMS committee was created, they hired, uh, it was a wonderful committee. And among others, uh, Senator Bob Graham, state Senator at the time from the, uh, Miami Lakes, he was on the committee, Jim Sheinberg from Tampa, a builder, a developer from Hillsboro County, and, um, a very well known attorney in Miami, Alan Milledge, who later became chairman of the South Florida Mar Water Management District under Lawton Childs, Alan Milledge was, uh, appointed chairman by then Governor scu. So the, they hired an executive director, Dan O'Connell, and he, among other things, uh, needed, uh, uh, a halftime, uh, research assistant, put a little three by five card on the, uh, bulletin board of the law school long before the internet and long before iPhones. And so I saw that thought. Hmm. After my discussions with Gil Fennel and real property class talking about Florida's growth and Florida issues, I said, man, I'd sure like to do that if I could get the job. So I started working as a research aid to the Elms committee.  
Speaker 1    00:14:27    How big was the staff other than you had an executive  
Speaker 2    00:14:30    Director? The executive director, a research assistant, me and a secretary  
Speaker 1    00:14:35    That has, that has some  
Speaker 2    00:14:36    Context. So I remember the three major assignments I had to work on, if I can remember 'em. One was doing research and a report on community development district CDs. And another one was the, uh, mandatory phosphate mining legislation, which may ring a bell with, you know, being from swift mud, all the phosphate, uh, mines, well up until 1975, that, that was voluntary, uh, reclamation. Nothing was ever required. And so I did my little research that's part of Elm's committee, final report published in December of 73, has a chapter on mandatory phosphate reclamation laws strip mining using the Pennsylvania law as an example. So CDs, mandatory Phosphate Reclamation, and then the other was transfer of development rights. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which was, uh, working in some states at the time. So that was part of my research, but most of my assignments involved making coffee and making sure the copying, uh, machine was full of paper.  
Speaker 1    00:15:42    Sure. <laugh>. So, but is that when you caught, uh, uh, the bug, uh, you ended up working, I think directly for governor, ask you,  
Speaker 2    00:15:52    Right? Yeah. I was definitely, I became very, very interested in Florida's growth. Where we, where we are going, how growth is taking place, what our environmental laws are, or they working, do they need improvement? Cause our, our environmental laws in Florida really, uh, only started, uh, in 1967 with the repeal of the Bulkhead Act in the passage of the first minimal drudge and fill permit, which was housed in the Department of Health long before D e P was created, or d e r. So, uh, where are we, where are we going? What's needed? All those thoughts were in my mind as I, as I spent my, my last, uh, year and a half in law school working on the ELMS committee. And then, and then as that, as the ELMS committee, we presented a final, I still have a copy of the original final report to the legislature dated December 73 of the ELMS report and when that was presented. And then that spring of 74 was my, my last semester of law school. And I spent most of my time working with the ELMS committee members and Dan O'Connell, uh, lobbying for the passage of the set of laws that were recommended in that report.  
Speaker 1    00:17:07    Did you draft the physical legislation itself, or was it a policy prescription saying you, in order to  
Speaker 2    00:17:15    Do it was mostly policy. Okay. I didn't get involved at that point in the actual, uh, drafting of the legislation. I mean, we left that up to the bill drafters and, uh, the committees sure that we did testify, we were testifying to committees and whatnot. So, uh, I I was so busy, literally, I mean, I was working a lot of hours on for the ELMS committee as a, you know, what turned into almost a full-time job, but it was only a half-time job and going to class, I forgot to interview, uh, my senior year of law school. I forgot to, to actually interview for jobs cuz I thought I'd probably go into private practice. But I had a keen interest in the environment, but I really forgot to interview. The only interview I had set up, uh, interestingly enough, was with the county attorney for Palm Beach County, Michael Small at the time, in 1974, uh, to, uh, join, uh, the county attorney's office in the area of land use.  
Speaker 2    00:18:13    And he had an interest in my background of Elm's committee work. It was, seemed like a good fit. Uh, but before I went down for an interview, I, uh, had developed a close friendship with, uh, the Governor's Environmental aid, Jay Landers and, uh, Jay Landers, uh, in the, in the summer of 74, he'd been serving, uh, for as you's, uh, first term as his environmental aid, uh, along with, uh, Ken Woodburn, who was more of a biologist than a lawyer. And so, uh, Jay and I had become very close cuz he attended all the Elms committee meetings representing the governor's office to listen and learn and add. And he pulled me aside and said, Henry, you know, he, well, he said, uh, what are you doing now that you're graduating from law school? And I said, well, I, I'm really haven't really done given much thought to it.  
Speaker 2    00:19:05    I haven't done any interviews. I'm sort of like kind of graduating without a job. So I said, I'm sort of no longer in law school and no longer have a job. I'm sort of on the street. And he said, well, he said, this is, this is, uh, confidential, but the governor is gonna appoint me, uh, to head up the trustees, the internal improvement trust fund, the governor and cabinet, as you know, serve as the, uh, trustees for all state owned land. You know, uplands, submerged lands, whatever. So I'm gonna be appointed to replace Joel Coopersburg as the head of trustees. So that means my job will be open on the governor's staff. And if you're interested, I'll recommend you, I'll recommend you to the chief of staff, Jim Apthorpe at the time for an interview. And I said, wow, that, that would be, I mean, that would be a godsend.  
Speaker 2    00:19:49    I'm, I'm speechless. And he said, oh no, I think you'd be good at it. So anyway, he recommended me for an interview and a week later I interviewed and two weeks later I started and two weeks after that I was literally in at the governor's mansion in the basement office with the governor. Asked you, uh, advising him on how to vote at the next cabinet meeting on DNR and trustee items. I thought the cabinet was where you stored your dishes. I had no idea <laugh>, I had no real understanding of how the system worked and particularly biweekly cabinet meetings and all the different agendas and the different agencies and the different members of the cabinet and what their role was. And it was really kind of, uh, real, really eye-opening, but it really served as a wonderful springboard for me and the state government. Right. And so I was literally, uh, thrown into some pretty heavyweight decisions, uh, advising the governor literally on how to, to vote and why to vote at the, on this item at the next cabinet meeting.  
Speaker 1    00:20:50    Yeah. I wanna talk more about, uh, more about Governor Ascu cuz he was your first, like, but you've worked for five heavyweight governors. Like it's a, it's a string of very, uh, folks that are, are household names, uh, for folks that know, that know Florida. But, uh, ASCU was your first and Bush was your last, is that Governor  
Speaker 2    00:21:13    Jeb Bush? Yeah, it was Ascu Graham, Martinez Childs and Bush, right in that order.  
Speaker 1    00:21:19    Right. All very popular governors. Um, and I think including Governor Ascu. Oh  
Speaker 2    00:21:24    Yeah. Very, very, very much so.  
Speaker 1    00:21:26    Tell me a little bit about that, because you're, you're at the dawn of not just federal environmental law and water law, but Florida environmental law and policy and water law and policy. And, and you've parachuted from, you know, from outta nowhere outta law school, um, pretty young and now, and now you're in the basement office of, of Governor Askew. How did he, what was his philosophy of, of water and environmental and, and land issues at that time as he's trying to, to unravel that, that policy?  
Speaker 2    00:22:04    Well, I think he was a visionary. And I say that because you, you really would have to go back and understand, I don't think the term environmental environmentalist was even a word in 1974. I don't think the environment was really a word. It wasn't there yet, <laugh>. So point being, it was still a very conservative, and I'm not talking about Republican versus Democrat, I'm just talking about conservative small government. I mean, the state budget in 1974 was only probably $20 million <laugh>. I mean, it was just bare bones. I mean, think about that. So, so ask you governor, ask you add some very interesting thoughts and, and discussions with us. And the, the one that stands out the most is this. We were having probably three or four or five of us as the staff were, were meeting with him on an issue. And it, uh, it was starting to get in involved in the environmental argument versus the economic argument.  
Speaker 2    00:23:09    What's good for the economy or what's good for the environment. And Governor asked, you looked around and said, guys, guys, let me, let me offer you a thought. Let me tell you something you may not realize. He said, the environment and the economy are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they are symbiotic. You can't have one in the long term without the other. Now that stuck with me for 50 years because when you think about it, he was right. I mean, if we have overdevelopment and two, and the economy is running rapid and we don't care about the environment, people are gonna stop wanting to come to Florida. I mean, we've seen that with the bluegreen toxic algae right. In South Florida and the problems it caused. But if we go to the other extreme and have nothing but a clean environment and we don't support healthy business growth, we won't have the tax revenue to support the environment. And that's what was in his mind when he uttered those words to me 50 years ago. That was pretty visionary in 1974.  
Speaker 1    00:24:12    It see, and it seems like he and, and every governor since have been trying to find that balance.  
Speaker 2    00:24:19    Now I would, I, at least the five I worked for, I can't speak with any real authorities toward the governor since then. Cause I didn't work for 'em, em, sure. But I can tell you that those five, regardless of their political affiliation, were all strongly committed to, to reaching that balance in a very, uh, a balanced way. I mean, they all cared about the environment and they all wanted to spawn more good, strong, clean and industry environmental growth, but not at the expense of destroying the environment.  
Speaker 1    00:24:49    That's something that we as a state as Floridians grapple with. Don't we, I mean, for all of these years, what is the balance? Um, everyone wants to, to protect springs and estuaries and bays and these other, uh, beautiful natural, uh, features. But at the same time, it's a, it's a state that's grown. And you and I were just talking a little bit ago about when you started law school was what, 19 70, 19 71, somewhere in there. And you were saying that the population of Florida was 6 million,  
Speaker 2    00:25:17    Around six or 7 million. Right.  
Speaker 1    00:25:19    And now it's, and now it's what, 22 million  
Speaker 2    00:25:22    And it's almost 22. In fact, uh, ginger at Delal gave the numbers out this morning in her openings at 21.8 million is the estimate today.  
Speaker 1    00:25:31    Right. And I'll get to, I'll get to kind of the, how you see yourself in that picture now, but I want to go back a little bit, uh, to some of that, that service. So you're working with a visionary, um, and you're doing good work and you're, you're at the, the dawn of this, and then that moves, then you move to a place. And I think most listeners may or may not know that today's Florida Department of Environmental Protection used to be two separate agencies and you were the top lawyer, uh, for one of them. Yes. Can you explain the difference between the two that became d e p and and then what you're  
Speaker 2    00:26:07    Doing? Yeah. A there was environmental government reorganization in Florida and around 1970, and in 1970, the legislature, through this government reorg act, basically, they shifted around certain functions to put some functions that really had been in the Department of Health and, uh, the pollution control department into the Department of Natural Resources. And the, and then they created d e r, the Department of Environmental Regulation. So in essence, you had two different major agencies dealing with Florida's natural resources and environment. Every, everything now Fish and Wildlife was set aside in the Fish and Game Commission at the time. That all has changed too. But at the time, everything dealing with Florida's natural resources and environment were housed in either department or natural resources or the Department of Environmental Regulation. And that law took effect in 1975. In fact, I worked on that draft legislation with Ken Woodburn and Jay Landers when, uh, when I was on the governor's staff to, uh, basically decide which functions should go and which of those two agencies. And that's what we presented to the legislative staff is here's the governor's recommendation. Were  
Speaker 1    00:27:23    You part of developing the combination of, I know you had moved on by that time, you were the, the top attorney at DN r for, was it  
Speaker 2    00:27:31    Five years? Five years,  
Speaker 1    00:27:32    Right. First, before I leave D n r, so quickly, was, was there something that was a big issue that you were tackling as that top lawyer at  
Speaker 2    00:27:44    The time? There were several legislative issues, one of which was the Markable Record Title Act. And there was a move by the phosphate companies to convince the legislature, uh, to apply the Markable record title Act to Sovereign's submerge lands, cuz it involved the Peace River lawsuit, which was a huge case in front of the State Supreme Court. But, uh, several years in a row, I would testify on behalf of the governor and cabinet to the Senate Committee. That was basically the judiciary Committee that, as you know, uh, would take an issue like this up and testify that the remarkable record title Act should not extinguish the, the state's interest in sovereign emerg lands being whether they're freshwater lakes or rivers, or three miles in the Atlantic and nine miles in the Gulf three Leagues. So that was always an interesting debate. And we finally won that case in the State Supreme Court in May of 87.  
Speaker 2    00:28:38    And I had been at the St. John's River Water Management District for at least two and a half years, and it finally wound its way up to the State Supreme Court and they ruled in the state's favor. And I'll never forget that afternoon, I was in my office in Palka at the Water Management District, and five state senators called me on a conference call and, and, uh, wanted to share their happiness in Glee and the victory of that case. And I think it was Tom McPherson and Ken Jenn and Frank Mann, who just passed away, unfortunately. And George Stewart, the state senators at the time, that were very much cognizant of what the impact of the Markable Record Title Act would do to eliminate the state's claims to sovereign submerge lands. The other interesting one involving sovereign's submerge lands was in, uh, I don't know if you've ever heard of or uh, remember the, uh, Getty Oil permit that was in front of the cabinet to, uh, actually drill for oil in East Bay Pensacola. Oh,  
Speaker 1    00:29:37    Wow.  
Speaker 2    00:29:37    Big case. I mean, uh, 81, uh, that issue was taken up by the governor and cabinet, and we had an eight hour hearing and, uh, the, uh, governed cabinet voted unanimously to deny the permit to drill. But that was a, that was a big issue. Uh, a lot of people from the Pensacola area came to that particular meeting and spoke. But anyway, those were a couple of the items and, uh, that were interesting. And  
Speaker 1    00:30:04    I want to get to, uh, some of that water management district experience. But I was thinking, uh, to myself, one of the most valuable learning tools that I had. And I started in, uh, the Senate and then the, the Governor's office, but I, doing environmental, and I was an environmental analyst. Uh, you remember the old days? Yeah, well, old days for me, not for you. Uh, <laugh> and w and I realized that, uh, that I didn't know as much as I thought I would until, until I went to the, to the Southwest Florida Water Management District and worked there. And I realized the difference between the work that I was doing as an analyst, whether it was, um, uh, learning from folks like yourself, uh, other executive directors. But it wasn't until I saw how that worked on the ground in places like, uh, you know, Polk, Polk County and Hardy County, uh, Highlands County.  
Speaker 1    00:31:01    Um, was that a big learning difference for you as well as you spent this time and you were, you're at, you're working, uh, immediately at a high level from the time you were in law school. Uh, you get out, you're working directly for, uh, uh, governor scu. You moved to this really large state agency, um, and now you're headed to East Central Florida, you know, and northeast Florida. And you've gotta run, you've gotta run a district, you're an attorney and at this point, uh, you know, a heavyweight in these policy, these environmental policy issues. What was that, that difference, like when you move, when you move from Tallahassee to, to St. John's?  
Speaker 2    00:31:47    Well, for me, the biggest difference is that at the St. Johns River Water Management District, we had at the time 19 counties in nor as you said, in Northeast and East Central Florida. Cuz the St. Johns River, uh, meanders for roughly 300 miles. It starts in the, uh, the headwater start, uh, outside in west of Vero Beach and go north up until through Jacksonville into Mayport and discharge into the Atlantic. My point is that with 19 counties, and each county basically has a voice in a way on the Water Management Board, as you well know, having run Northwest and worked for Swift Mud, that you have to be very attuned to the local government's needs those local basins and those local needs by the different county commissions and the different business interests. It's really, uh, what I, what I sometimes refer to as retail politics.  
Speaker 2    00:32:44    It's a lot like the county commission that I serve on now. You, you really are on the front lines of the battle. You're not sitting in some, uh, you know, gold dome in Tallahassee issuing edicts <laugh> to the, to the state Sure. And sort of insulated in a way, if that makes sense. That's, that was the difference that I, I, and I enjoyed it. I enjoyed working directly with Citizens Groups, the friends of the Waiv Vva, the friends of the Upper Basin, different, uh, interest groups in each little pocket of the district. And, uh, that was, uh, fun and, and and exciting. Um, but again, in Tallahassee, my experience, it's the state agency level. And in the governor's office, as you were pretty insulated from that level of discussion, what now what you weren't insulated from, as you well know, was the legislature because you, you know, if they pulled the purse strings and if you're with an agency, and in fact, part of my role in addition to being general counsel at DNR was to be the legislative, uh, probably the number two legislative person, cuz Don Doden, the assistant executive director was the chief lobbyist.  
Speaker 2    00:33:56    But I tagged along as his legal advisor and also testified on numerous occasions. But, you know, uh, you basically tried to react in a very positive way to the legislature, uh, because they really are the, I always understood from law school and ever since the legislature of this state sets the policy and the executive branch carries it out, and those who get confused about that don't last long in Tallahassee.  
Speaker 1    00:34:25    That's a definitely a good, uh, good point. <laugh>, you're at St. John's. Yeah. You're probably the long, it was probably the longest serving single district at the, at the time for an executive director. 17 years.  
Speaker 2    00:34:38    You're 17 years. 17 years. Yeah. Almost of the day. But  
Speaker 1    00:34:42    Yeah. And so, and I'm gonna fast forward, it's partly because it's, you know, it's where my memory comes into, into the picture. I hate to, to gloss over all that important work at, at St. John's. Like, but I want to, you know, I want to get to some of these, these larger issues and probably in my mind, one of the biggest turning points for water environment in Florida, at least from the perspective of somebody that worked for Governor Bush in the governor's office and since in, you know, in different agencies, including two water management districts. And that's when you went to the South Florida Water Management District. Uh, and that was in 2001, right?  
Speaker 2    00:35:18    Right. Yeah, may, may of 2001.  
Speaker 1    00:35:21    So you, you make the switch, it's a little farther South Palm Beach from Palka. What, how did that, how did that happen? Governor Bush actually asked you to move, did he not?  
Speaker 2    00:35:31    He did. And I, I'll tell you exactly how it happened, cuz I mean, the governor did not call me directly and personally what happened is I was actually, oddly enough having a meeting in PCA on the river on the St. Johns River with then Mayor John Delaney from Jacksonville in, uh, 2001 in May of 2001. And my secretary, this is long before cell phones were working properly, at least in Palak. And my secretary got a message to me that David STRs was on the phone and was trying to reach me frantically or quickly. And David was the secretary of d e p at the time, uh, after the merger bill. So David STRs calls me, uh, in May of oh one and said, uh, and he'd been on board two years since J had become governor. So we'd become, you know, reasonably good friends talking, uh, on a pretty regular basis.  
Speaker 2    00:36:23    And he calls me and I thought he might be calling about a George Pacific, uh, permit, uh, water, water supply permit, c p or whatever. He said, how long have you been at the St. John's Water Management District, Henry? And I said, well, uh, let's see, 17 years this, this month. And I was thinking ahead, Hmm, why is he asking me that? And I got very defensive and I thought to myself, well, I know what the next question is, or the next statement. Well, we think you've probably served long enough and it's time to move on and find new opportunities. In other words, we got our own guy. So I, that's what I was expecting. And he said instead he said, well, the governor. And I think that you've really done a good job at St. John's being able to work for different governors and different administrations and different political parties. And you seem to be able to keep things moving at a relatively calm pace and get things done like the upper basin project, the restoration of the St. Johns River. And, um, we're having some issues in South Florida right now. Uh, we passed this major legislation called CRP and we're having some management issues. And so we we're gonna make a change. And the governor really thinks that it would be wonderful if you would transfer down there and take over. So  
Speaker 1    00:37:41    Cerp, for the folks that are listing stands for Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Program Plan,  
Speaker 2    00:37:47    Or Yeah, comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan. There you go. Sirp. So, uh, and by the way, that's a, that was the, at the time the largest environmental restoration effort, both, uh, from a dollar standpoint and a space standpoint, it was 8 billion with a B and the largest in the world as far as, uh, environmental restoration. So it was a big deal both in Congress, it passed Congress and it passed the state legislature the same year. Cause it's a joint 50 50 project. And that was the, uh, the subject matter when, uh, uh, David told me that the governor really wanted me to, if I would transfer, he didn't order me to go, but it was probably as close to an order as you could get without an order. It was like, we really, really think that it would be good if you would go down and run that.  
Speaker 2    00:38:40    And I said to, I said to David, I said, well, I, I, cuz I've always had an in, always in the back of my mind, the whole time I was at St. John's, I had an interest in following Everglades Restoration cuz it's kind of a big deal. Uh, and so, uh, you know, how do you do it and what needs to be done and can we ever, you know, restore partial restoration of the annual hydro period and how all that works together. I said, David, I I'm, I'm intrigued, I'm interested, but I said, I I have to tell you, I have to, I have to go home tonight and ask my wife cuz I can't make a move of that nature without getting support from her. Well, that's understandable. Well just call us in the morning and let us know <laugh>. Okay. So I went home that night and I talked to my wife and I said, the governor wants me to transfer to, uh, south Florida Water Management.  
Speaker 2    00:39:29    And she said, and she said, well, where's the headquarters? And I said, in West Palm Beach. Then she said, well, how close is that to Boca Raton? And I said, uh, maybe 20 minutes. And she said, well, how soon can we leave <laugh>? And the reason that she said How soon can we leave is cause her only daughter, uh, at the time lived in Boca Raton, ah, and single had a, and working for, uh, N C C I, which is a major actuarial firm headquartered in Boca Raton. And so, uh, it was really my, my wife's, uh, interest in getting close to her only daughter that led to my transfer from Bette Goa, west Palm Beach <laugh>. And so that's what, but I, I wanted to go, I wanted to do it, but I wasn't gonna do it without my full support of my wife. Mm-hmm.  
Speaker 1    00:40:19    <affirmative>. And so you, you moved down, my recollection was that you and Governor Bush, now I didn't know you in context to, you know, governors ask you or Graham or Martinez or, or trials, but my, you know, my sense was that you and he were pretty close. That you talked a lot, um, that you had a really solid understanding of what he expected from you. And he set you, set you loose to, to do what you did best, which was run a district. Does that  
Speaker 2    00:40:44    Sound I would say that's, that's pretty accurate. Yeah. I mean I certainly, I had tremendous admiration for Jeb Bush as a governor. Part of that probably was cause I had such admiration for his father, the president. I mean, I, I had a lot of admiration and respect for the Bush family. And, uh, that only increased over time.  
Speaker 1    00:41:06    He was a, he was a, uh, easy boss to understand.  
Speaker 2    00:41:09    He made it very clear to me whenever any discussions came up and I had the opportunity to meet with him, he made it very clear to me what his objective was, what his goal was, and how he expected us at the Water Management District to get it done.  
Speaker 1    00:41:22    Right. And just to give folks, uh, a sense of you and I, and I tell this story, uh, sometimes I I told you, uh, before, I don't even know if you remembered it. I was, uh, a lowly analyst. I did, did water, water management, you know, district policy and budget stuff. And I was tasked with, and this is 2004 now, this is a massive hurricane season for Florida. Uh, I think it was like four B four major hurricanes are close to major hurricanes, crisscrossed, Florida. Uh, three of them passed straight through, uh, the gut of your district from, from different, from all different directions it seemed. Yeah. Right. So I was tasked with, with calling down to get some, to get an update as one does to, to see how, uh, the perspective of, of the district was and how things were going, uh, that you, y'all had it under control obviously, but, um, but you just get an update.  
Speaker 1    00:42:15    And I call the main, the main office number cuz I don't know who to call at that, uh, you know, at that point. So I called the main number. I assume it got forwarded to the E O C or someplace. And the, the voice and your voice is unmistakable <laugh>. And, and so you, you pick up the phone and say, uh, something to, and I'll, I'll paraphrase just something that's to the effect of, um, you know, south Florida Water Management District, uh, how I help you. I said, is this Henry Bean? And you said, yeah. I said, well, why, why are you answering the phone? Uh, you've got what, 1800 employees at the time? Something like that. And, um, I don't know if you remember the conversation at all. It was, it was brief. And you said, well, because I was closest to the phone, <laugh>. And, and so that always struck me as, uh, someone who was in my mind already a living legend in water management, uh, the godfather of water management, if you will. Uh, and does that represent, uh, who you are as a person? Who you were as a, a manager. You, you talked and you and I talked offline about hiring the best people and letting them, uh, do what they do best. When I was in, when I was in the military, the sign of a good officer, a good non-commission officer, is that they would never ask someone to do something they weren't willing to themselves. Is that kind of how you saw, uh, your service at, uh, the water management districts?  
Speaker 2    00:43:39    Yeah, I, I, I'm, I may be, I don't know, maybe somewhat unique in, in this sense that I, I'm a firm believer in, in, in, uh, that everything's a team effort. And I don't get hung up or caught up on organizational platitudes and, and the, whatever you might call the prestige of being the executive director. And now I've seen others who tend to do that mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But I, I, I think that that takes away from reaching your goal as a team. Right? And so I've always considered myself a team player and if anything, a coach, not a, uh, someone who sort of, uh, manages by either, uh, fear or negativity. So, and, uh, uh, uh, sort of credit to my mother, my mother, uh, having grown up in West Texas, the, in the fifties there was extreme segregation among the young know whites and blacks.  
Speaker 2    00:44:36    And my mother, having come from Iowa on a small farm, she drilled into me when I was a young boy. I can't, I mean, I'm talking three and four years old, she started drilling into me that, that every person is created equally, every person, black, white, brown, doesn't matter. Then everyone should be given respect and that, you know, you're, you're no better or no worse from any other person. Right. And so I sort of probably subconsciously carried that to your example. I mean, just because I was the executive director didn't mean I couldn't answer the phone. If I was closest, I oughta answer the damn phone <laugh>. So I, I dunno if that makes sense. Does, but that's does, it does. That's way, you know, and I think that that, uh, regardless of whether it's the CEO of a multimillion dollar company or the janitor that comes in at night, each of those people need to be treated with respect.  
Speaker 2    00:45:30    And that's what I tried to do as executive director. And I was very pleased the day I left, uh, in 2005, the uh, head custodian of the South Florida Water Management District, uh, came up to me, hugged me, and he, and he, uh, I'm gonna get a little sentimental myself here, but he hugged me and he, he started crying, well, tearing up. And he said, he said, Mr. Dean, I just want you to know that, that not only are you the first executive director who ever spoke to me, but you're also always asked about my family and my children. Right. And that, that it meant a lot to me that it made him happy as a worker, that I was able to communicate with him as a person. Right. If that makes sense.  
Speaker 1    00:46:17    It does. Absolutely does. Uh, I always saw it as, uh, as a, the chair doesn't belong to me. It belongs to, to someone else. It belongs to, whether it be the, the county's, um, that you work within the governing board or governor, they're the ones that that decide and, and we're there to serve. But you served for 30 years and walking out that day, you're talking about leaving. Um, is was it hard for you to let go? I mean, I know you were ready, but was it hard to let go in that sense of, you've been in the trenches now Yeah. With these folks. You've done cerp, you've done accelerate, you've got Kissimee River Restoration going at the time. Uh, you've got hurricane seasons that, that in during that period were, you know, were significant. Was that hard to let go  
Speaker 2    00:47:04    Of? No, for me it really wasn't. I felt it was time. And I, and like you said, I I didn't own that chair, that the ed in it, it was time for someone else to take over. And I was only 58 at the time. And I say that because I thought that, you know, I would find other things to do, and I did. And you did private consulting and, uh, ultimately running for the county commission. And so I, I, uh, I was not, I, I was, if anything I missed the people I missed, I missed a lot of the team that I had built, that I had hired, that I had worked with. Uh, uh, you know, I had a core probably of 15 or 20 people that I worked with closely every day that were top-notch scientists, administrators, uh, dedicated, uh, people. So that's, you know, I tried to stay in touch with most of them, but, uh, that's, that's what I missed the most. But it was, I did all I could in the five years I was there, or four years, four years I guess. But anyway, I, I, I, I wasn't terribly saddened, but I felt like that I did as good a job as I could and was the time to, you know, turn the reins over to someone else.  
Speaker 1    00:48:21    Sure. And I guess, but on that note, and whether it's, uh, St. John's River Water Management District or South Florida, is there something that you look back on? I was like, gosh, if I'd, if I'd had a little more time that, that bit of unfinished business, that it's not, not that it was, uh, necessarily has to be a failure, but just some, uh, a disappointment or something you'd wish you had a little bit more time to.  
Speaker 2    00:48:46    Well, I mean, what stands out more than anything to me personally, when I left in oh five, by oh five, we had actually, uh, gotten the, a one reservoir from scratch since I arrived. We got the A one reservoir, uh, designed, permitted and funded and under construction. And so, and that was a big deal for the district and for the state, because that was gonna be the, the reservoir to capture discharges from the Lake, lake Okeechobee and then send them south. Okay. Big deal. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so I was very pleased, cuz that's the one thing, the one, the one directive that Jeb Bush, I'll never forget it. The one thing he told me that was high on his list, when he asked me to transfer down there, he said, Henry, before you leave, before I leave, before I Jeb Bush leave office, I want that reservoir under construction.  
Speaker 2    00:49:46    And he told me that in 2001. So he knew it was gonna take a few years, but he didn't want it to take 20 years. Right. Well, guess what? It still ain't under construction <laugh>. Okay. Because after it was under construction for approximately a year and a half, two different environmental groups filed a lawsuit, challenging the fact that a water reservation rule had not been done, and therefore there wouldn't be enough water reserve for the environment and stopped the project. So that stopping of that, of the a one reservoir, when I had spent so much effort, personal effort, hard effort to get it funded, permitted, and designed and under construction as the governor had asked me to do, and then having seen the district spend 300 million for construction and then have it stopped and not finished was definitely my biggest disappointment, which happened in oh eight, by the way, is when the reservoir got stopped.  
Speaker 1    00:50:50    So you mentioned it already. You moved, you, you, you made yourself busy. 2005 comes and goes, but you're not done. You, you become, uh, a county commissioner in St. John's County. What year, what year was that  
Speaker 2    00:51:06    First ran in 2016.  
Speaker 1    00:51:08    Okay. And the second question is, why, why would you want to be a  
Speaker 2    00:51:12    County commissioner? Well, it, it probably is, uh, self-evident that having served for 30 years in state government, that I have sort of a, uh, a desire for public service, if you will. And all the things I did or that I was involved in with my team at both St. John's and at South Florida, I really like to see good public policy implemented. And I like to see public projects being done and help the people help the resource. Right. So when I was approached in 2016 from a group of friends in St. John's County, would I consider running for commission? And I thought about it and I realized that serving on a county commission in a growing county that's growing exponentially is in some major, sort of like being director of a water management district. It involves growth management, it involves infrastructure, it involves budget, it involves hiring the best public service, uh, employees.  
Speaker 2    00:52:11    And I think that, uh, I felt like, and it's sort of my hometown. I mean, I've actually been a resident of St. Johns County since 1984, and I would commute to, uh, pla to the water management headquarters except for the four years I've been at South Florida. So I have a lot of friends in St. John's County and I want to see the county maintain its beauty and its quality of life, even in the face of exponential growth. So I said, maybe I can help on the county commission bring some value with my experience. And so I ran one, served, uh, ran again in 2020 and was reelected to another four year term and I may or may not run again in 2024. A lot will depend on how I feel as far as my health and Sure. All the other factors you consider.  
Speaker 1    00:53:04    Is there a main priority that that also, uh, that you work on? Guinea County Commissioner, county government, you deal with everything you deal  
Speaker 2    00:53:12    With? Uh, it's general government, right? The difference between county government and water management. Government is water management's very focused on the four, as you well know, the four key mission statements. And with county government, I mean, it's garbage collection, it's water supply, it's, uh, you know, we're gonna have fireworks this 4th of July, we're gonna fund that. I mean, you, uh, someone may call that has a dead cat in their front yard. I mean, the list goes on forever. Right. But the key things I've been involved in are beach re nourishment again, based on my past history working with DNR when they administered that program. And, uh, growth management, which goes back to my Elms committee today. And so I have some background in history with what today are some of the key issues, growth management, beach, re nourishment infrastructure, so con land conservation. Interestingly enough, between my work at DNR and the St.  
Speaker 2    00:54:10    Johns River Water Management District, I was involved either directly or indirectly through staff with the acquisition of about a million and a quarter acres of conservation land statewide, over a million acres. And just in St. John's County alone, about 70,000 acres. Not knowing I was going to end up being the county commissioner later in life. But my point is that I want to try to maintain the beauty and the natural setting as much as possible, even though we're gonna continue to grow, uh, as more people want to move to Florida and more people that discover Florida, then they discover St. John's County that has a lot of good things going for.  
Speaker 1    00:54:55    It sounds like, uh, it sounds like you've got, you know, gone to the end to go back to the beginning.  
Speaker 2    00:55:00    I'm sort of full circle, isn't it? Right,  
Speaker 1    00:55:02    Right. I mean, all all of the things that, you know, as you say that you, you know, you, uh, poured into this career, every single one seems to, you know, to come in handy in terms of, uh, tackling, cuz that we were just talking earlier about, uh, the population difference. Yeah. Uh, and St. John's is certainly, uh, no, you know, no different in that regard on a local level. And so, uh, I assume that that's, you know, that's part of the thing that keeps you really interested is, is because you, you have seen, you know, this, uh, movie of  
Speaker 2    00:55:32    Sorts. Yeah, exactly. No, I would agree.  
Speaker 1    00:55:35    I know you don't like to talk about your successors. You've said that before. And I, and I completely understand. I, I, and I agree. It's not, it's not our turn anymore. It's, it's someone else's turn. But I wanna talk a little bit about more so your philosophical approach to today. You mentioned before that, that Governor Bush and, and David STRs noted that your ability to work across, uh, political lines, it, does it matter who, you know, who you're serving. You know, if they're interested in, uh, you know, environmental, uh, resource protection, water protection, and, you know, and development, then you're there to serve. Um, is that something that you still find yourself being able to, you know, to, to reach back to today? Has that, uh, do you find that that's something that may be missing a little bit more, more these days from your perspective as a county commissioner?  
Speaker 2    00:56:26    Well, right now, in today's world, in 2022, I think there's certainly more partisan politics, particularly at the federal level. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and to some extent at the state level. But I, I think that, uh, at, at the local level, and particularly in St. Johns County, I think, uh, all of us involved locally are committed to maintaining a healthy balance, going back to the healthy balance of strong economic growth, but a protecting our environment, our natural resources. Because at the, at the end of the day, it goes back to Governor Nachis quote that I mentioned a, a clean environment, healthy water supply, both in quantity and quality terms and uh, uh, healthy lakes, river streams and, and marshes are not a, uh, are not really a Republican or Democrat issue. They're really the, the quality of life for all of us as Floridians. And, and I think all of us, whether we're democrat, republican, or independent, we all want and, and really deserve a clean environment. And that's been my philosophy through my career regardless. So I try to keep politics out of, uh, at least partisan politics out of the debate and concentrate on what's best and what can we afford to meet our goal of having clean water, clean lakes, clean rivers, healthy beaches.  
Speaker 1    00:57:50    Not to to draw you into Yeah. Politics. But are you, um, uh, optimistic or pessimistic or somewhere between, in, in terms of environmental, uh, at water issues in, in Florida? We've seen, we've seen, I think we've seen some progress in, uh, the work that you're doing that, that you did rather and serve the Kissimee River Restoration Project. Um, but there are still challenges and some serious ones. Uh, Indian River Lagoon. Yeah, it is. Like, are you optimistic about the future?  
Speaker 2    00:58:23    I, I, I am, I'm optimistic in this sense that I think that because of, uh, a number of, uh, let's say setbacks we've experienced over the last, uh, six or seven years, including the, uh, bluegreen toxic algae outbreaks and the red tide, we've, I think have, have had a certainly a, a in the last, uh, at least the last two years. And I think some of this, I, I will say, can be contributed to Governor DeSantis. I think he has with his leadership, put a, put a, uh, a greater emphasis on the need to make sure we have clean water and a clean environment. And I think that with, uh, the funding that has been, uh, appropriated in the last two to three years, uh, speaks to that with respect to particularly Everglades cleanup. I'm very disappointed that the, uh, Indian River Lagoon seems to be regressing rather than progressing.  
Speaker 2    00:59:17    Cuz I spent a lot of personal time at St. John's working on the Indian River Lagoon Restoration. And, uh, I'm, I, I hope there's some, some novel ideas that are being tried. I think, uh, basically planting oysters, believe it or not, in the Indian River lagoon may be it's salvation because they take up a huge amount of nitrates that otherwise lead to algae blooms that cover the, you know, the sunlight and kill the seagrass. But I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'll probably always be hopeful. I'm kind of a glass half full, not half empty kind of guy, but I, but I think we've made some progress in the last two or three years that we seem to, I don't know if it was cause of, uh, all the lawsuits or just the inability for all the different stakeholders to come together, but really from, I'd say from 2008 until 2018, we had a 10 year period of sort of litigious bickering, fighting lawsuits, failure to pass bipartisan legislation, appropriations. I think that has, has turned the corner a bit. And I, I feel pretty good about the direction we're going now.  
Speaker 1    01:00:26    I think we'll leave it, uh, on that note, Henry Dean, commissioner St. Johns County Living Legend <laugh>. Um, thank you so much for your time. It was great to have this conversation.  
Speaker 2    01:00:36    Well, me too. Enjoyed it.  
Speaker 1    01:00:38    Thanks again, Henry Dean for joining me for our inaugural episode. What a great way to kick things off. You've been listening to the Water for Fighting podcast. You can reach me atfl water podd gmail.com or on Twitter and Instagram, atfl water podd with your comments and suggestions for who and or what you'd like to know more about production. This podcast is by Lonely Fox Studios, thanks to Carl, so for making the best of what he had to work with and to David Barfield for the Amazing graphics as well as technical assistance. A very special thank you goes out to Bow springing from the Bow Spring Band for giving permission to use his music for this podcast. The song is called Doing Work for Free, and you should check the band out live or wherever amazing music is sold. I'm your host, Brett Cyphers. Join me next time for another amazing conversation with someone who has helped shape water policy in the Sunshine State. Until then, keep your whiskey close and your water closer.