00:00:06:16 - 00:00:27:03 Speaker 1 Welcome to Waterford fighting. We discussed the past, present and future of water in Florida with the people who make it happen. I'm your host, Brett Cyphers. This episode of Waterford Fighting is brought to you by sea and shoreline. Sea and shoreline is the southeast leading innovator, protecting coastal communities from devastating storms and restoring ecosystems that once faced ecological collapse. 00:00:27:05 - 00:00:49:12 Speaker 1 Visit their website at sea and shoreline.com. If you enjoy the discussions here on Waterford Fighting, then you should definitely be reading the Florida Specifier and listening to the Florida Specifier podcast. The specifiers become Florida's environmental news source of record, and the podcast is your go to place for staying up to speed on environmental news and newsmakers here in the Sunshine State. 00:00:49:14 - 00:01:17:23 Speaker 1 You can join the discussion as we explore the latest environmental news and developments that matter to you. Go to WW dot Florida specifier.com or wherever only the finest of podcast are offered. All right. With that out of the way, let's get right to our guest, Mary Ellen Winkler. Mary Ellen is an attorney, an engineer, and is now the assistant executive director of the Saint Johns River Water Management District. 00:01:18:01 - 00:01:21:23 Speaker 1 Mary Ellen, thanks so much for spending some time with me to talk about yourself. 00:01:22:01 - 00:01:23:22 Speaker 2 Very happy to be here. 00:01:24:00 - 00:01:44:03 Speaker 1 So I want to get right into it because there's a lot to cover and a lot to cover from the family standpoint. You were born in a place that is very familiar to me. I spent many a summer in the Space Coast. Even though your story begins in Rockledge and Titusville is like, I want to go to Baltimore. 00:01:44:05 - 00:01:50:18 Speaker 1 To to the point where your parents met and the spider out from there. Tell me about them. 00:01:50:20 - 00:02:20:12 Speaker 2 My mother was a native of Baltimore. Her parents were Irish immigrants that came over, and my father went to the University of Florida and graduated with an electrical engineering degree and went to work for Westinghouse, originally in Pennsylvania, but then was moved down to Baltimore. And so my parents actually met through a Catholic young adult group, and that's how they found each other. 00:02:20:12 - 00:02:56:07 Speaker 2 And my father, unfortunately had to move back to Florida. His father was ill, and he came back to the Tampa area, okay. And helped take care. But they kept kept up the relationship. And my father would tease my mother because my mom would send cookies all of the time. And my father was always I wondered if my grandmother was the one making the cookies, but but in any event, yeah, they they stayed in touch and and kept that relationship going long distance for a while. 00:02:56:08 - 00:03:02:21 Speaker 1 Talk about your dad a little bit more. Said he came back to Florida and his father was in the Tampa Bay area. You said? 00:03:02:22 - 00:03:05:09 Speaker 2 Yeah, actually, my dad grew up in Zephyrhills. 00:03:05:10 - 00:03:06:14 Speaker 1 That's what I was going to ask. Yeah. 00:03:06:18 - 00:03:34:05 Speaker 2 And the family, my dad's family was in the movie theater business. And so my grandfather, actually in the 1920s, was an inventor and was also in theater. And he actually has a patent for a device that would be in movie theaters, like in the as you walked in. And it was so that you could view and hear sound and for movie previews. 00:03:34:05 - 00:04:01:14 Speaker 2 So my grandfather was in the theater business, movie theater business, and also many of my grandmother's families. They owned theaters in Dade City, Lakeland. And so my grandfather ended up working in one of the theaters. And then my dad, when he was young, was taught how to run the projection, basically a projectionist. And and so that's how I was his part time job when he was growing up, although he wasn't formally trained as an engineer. 00:04:01:15 - 00:04:30:10 Speaker 2 My grandfather was an inventor, and the house in Zephyrhills had the house, a classic Florida kind of cracker house with the metal roof. And I mean, imagine it. You can picture it. It's the classic. Unfortunately, he passed before I was born, but I've heard so many stories about how brilliantly smart he was, and I actually have some of his original books and things and electrical engineering or in chemistry books with his notes in them. 00:04:30:10 - 00:04:38:06 Speaker 2 So I'm in, you know, from the early 1900s. I think that engineering streak runs deep. Yeah. In the family. 00:04:38:07 - 00:04:40:22 Speaker 1 I was going to say is like sensing a familiar thread here. 00:04:41:00 - 00:05:03:22 Speaker 2 Yes, indeed. Yeah. So I think my grandfather and his just technical abilities kind of pass that on to my dad. And, you know, my dad is just brilliantly he's still with us, brilliantly smart. They didn't have a lot, but my dad made his own bike from parts foreman junkyard. Wow. Made an electric. I put a motor on it. 00:05:04:01 - 00:05:25:08 Speaker 2 I guess that's a thing now, right? Right. It was years before his time, but. But he would take pieces, parts of things and just build them. And very creative and and brilliant. But I think a lot of that was my grandfather's influence and my dad just very creative in an engineering way and just brilliantly smart. 00:05:25:11 - 00:05:39:01 Speaker 1 I mean, just to, you know, serve my own curiosity. You mentioned not a movie theaters I grew up in very early on in Lakeland and then into East Hillsborough County, trying to remember, did that include Drive-In theaters as well, like the was it the Funland or something? 00:05:39:02 - 00:05:57:15 Speaker 2 I don't know, I think I know the ones that are mostly like the Dade City Theater that I think some of them have been. Unfortunately, they're not with us anymore. They had the really unique architecture. That's the one that my grandfather got a position and worked at that one and managed it, and the one that my dad would help him with. 00:05:57:15 - 00:06:12:18 Speaker 2 But they also had theaters, I think, even in the Saint Cloud area. So there was a bunch of different movie theaters. So my dad, I obviously I have a great love of movies in film. I think I got that from my dad who saw so many movies growing up. 00:06:12:20 - 00:06:26:15 Speaker 1 Believe it. You know, I think about those old theaters. Well, and there's a there's a few, like the old the old theater in downtown Tampa, some of those. But you have to go out of your way to, to preserve them. Now they look like warehouse stores. Is that something your your dad lamented a lot? 00:06:26:16 - 00:06:47:19 Speaker 2 I think so he I think he loved the Dade City Theater so much. And so all of that history and, you know, they had the balconies and all of those types of things. I think for him, movies were places that were actually cool in the summers. Yeah, he just loved, loved that. And I think it led him to being exposed to that. 00:06:47:21 - 00:07:11:20 Speaker 2 It I think it fostered his love of music, and it also led him to be, I think, curious. But he's got funny stories. He I think there was one story he had where he had to substitute for my grandfather, and he got the reels out of order and nobody seemed to notice. Although he said one customer at the end says, very interesting movie. 00:07:11:20 - 00:07:21:08 Speaker 2 But he had gotten he had reversed a couple reels or something. But but it was a good experience for him, foundational really, to to start work and be with his father. 00:07:21:10 - 00:07:35:23 Speaker 1 So he went to get formal education and electrical engineering. Right. Said. Right. Yeah. I mean, did he do that because he knew that the opportunities out there were going to require that under the circumstances? Or was it just, hey, I want to you want to go to college anyway? 00:07:36:03 - 00:08:00:07 Speaker 2 I think he always wanted to do engineering. I think it was really hard for him. We we've talked about it recently with my boys. He was my grandparents had to hire someone to teach him a calculus math because at the time, Zephyrhills, he had taken all of the math they had to offer. And he went to the University of Florida. 00:08:00:11 - 00:08:30:17 Speaker 2 And he even felt behind compared to his peers. And it was a struggle for him. He really wanted engineering. I think he always had that scientific bent, but it was a very hard journey for him and I think financially for the family it was very difficult. In fact, it's interesting. His older sister was the first and she helped finance my dad, and then my dad helped finance his younger sister. 00:08:30:17 - 00:08:51:19 Speaker 2 Wow. And I think there were times when he didn't have all of the food that he needed to have. And I don't think he missed meals, but I think he could have had more. And and so there there was some level, because even at that age, my grandfather was not well and could not support everyone the way he would. 00:08:51:20 - 00:09:17:22 Speaker 2 He wanted to at that back at that time. In fact, my grandmother, when he became ill, she went back to school herself and got an education degree and became a teacher. There was a lot of hard work and a lot of effort to get. Education was so important to my grandparents and is a pair mount importance to my my, my, both of my parents because it was hard fought. 00:09:18:00 - 00:09:34:05 Speaker 1 I mean, it used to be that I went to college on the GI Bill. So did my my dad. He wouldn't have gone otherwise. And and I think people don't understand. I guess you can go into debt now, but just about anybody that wants to go to college now and go to college, you know, if you're capable and you want to. 00:09:34:06 - 00:09:52:12 Speaker 1 And in those days, very few people like percentage wise, you know, had the opportunity or could afford to or could afford to not work while studying. You have, you know, some situation like what you described, which is very interesting, which is kind of a, you know, pay it down, you know, to the, to the next. That's pretty a pretty cool setup. 00:09:52:13 - 00:10:02:15 Speaker 1 But I mean, you mentioned your mom and I want to go over to her brief because it's it's interesting in that it's not necessarily it doesn't start in Florida. Talk about her and her parents that she's from Baltimore. 00:10:02:21 - 00:10:30:01 Speaker 2 She was from Baltimore. Both of my grandparents immigrated from Ireland. They left. There was not much money. They were both grew up on in farming areas. And I think at that time, the United States provided the best opportunity and said they both both came. My mother was born there and also my dad was we joke about it. He was salutatorian of his class at Zephyrhills High School. 00:10:30:02 - 00:10:56:19 Speaker 2 My mom was valedictorian at her school. But she's interesting because, again, hard fought. She went to a Catholic grade school and got a scholarship to attend a Catholic high school and was brilliant in her. She's passed, but she was brilliant in her own right and a very intelligent, I think at the time, you know, it wasn't as common for women to go to college. 00:10:56:19 - 00:11:19:03 Speaker 2 So she didn't. And I think she went to work for the FBI as a, as a clerk. And I think they kind of recruited a little bit from that, that, that area. And but she was absolutely brilliant and interesting. Like growing up, dad would always handle math and science and mom would handle English and history if we ever needed help. 00:11:19:03 - 00:11:30:04 Speaker 2 But they were both just so brilliant, amazing in their intellect. And my mom just just so kind and just a brilliant person. 00:11:30:05 - 00:11:36:22 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, the child of immigrants. When did you know? When they came over? Was it like through Ellis Island or. 00:11:37:00 - 00:12:14:13 Speaker 2 Yeah, they they did. What's interesting as my since my mom has passed, I've been going through documents and things. It's been an education. And knowing what happened, she I found her journal when she went to Ireland to visit her grandparents. She wrote in her journal that it was they were so kind because they had warmed the bed with a hot water bottle for her and that, you know, they were not wealthy people at all, and that they had taken such care to made sure she had the warm bed, that she had all of these things. 00:12:14:13 - 00:12:34:22 Speaker 2 And she wrote so very fondly of that. But I also saw letters where. And you start to realize I never really thought about it before. When my grandparents left, that was the last time they saw their families. They never went back. And I saw one letter and it still has to this day. It was written in the 1930s. 00:12:35:00 - 00:13:00:23 Speaker 2 A shamrock pressed in it, and it was from my great grandfather to my grandmother, and how much he missed her and how much he wished to see her and wish that she was well. And knowing that they never did see each other again is a little bit heartbreaking. But you realize the sacrifice that my great grandparents might, these people that allowed me to be made for me. 00:13:01:00 - 00:13:22:14 Speaker 2 Ultimately, these things now are just so precious and I wish I knew about them when my grandparents were alive so that I could have asked more questions. But I treasure that I had these letters and other things from, you know, 100 years ago, most that told me about them and how much they cared for each other. 00:13:22:17 - 00:13:38:01 Speaker 1 Yeah, I think almost everybody seems to make that mistake, don't they? It's like something, something about our our nature that that doesn't appreciate things enough to ask the questions because you don't really think about it at the moment. I, I'm, you know, guilty of the same thing. 00:13:38:03 - 00:14:01:07 Speaker 2 It's there are so many things now having on both sides of my family because I'm sort of I guess I'm the classic middle child, but I'm the one that's the keeper of the family heirlooms and history right now, and I'm kind of going through and organizing them. And I wanted digitize them so I can pass them to both my siblings, but also to my cousins and just going through them. 00:14:01:07 - 00:14:27:13 Speaker 2 And you realize how important just these little, like a small letter with a shamrock in it means the world, because it's just a little bit of insight. And I, I do wish so badly that I had because I think it was about 18 when my grandparents passed the senior in high school. And so I think at 18, I wasn't evolved enough, smart enough to realize how much. 00:14:27:15 - 00:14:54:09 Speaker 2 Yeah, that knowing these things, now that I'm older, I just wish so much that I, I knew. But what I do know from reading what I've been able to, is that there was a lot of love and just wanting everyone to be okay and do well, and that brings a lot of peace and a lot of, in some ways, pride that everybody worked to make the next generation better. 00:14:54:13 - 00:14:55:01 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:14:55:06 - 00:15:25:22 Speaker 1 Let's take a minute to talk about my friends at Sea and Shoreline. Since its inception in 2014, sea and shorelines, unmatched experience with scientifically validated methods of aquatic restoration has proven successful across more than 150 environmental projects. The company continues to be the industry leader in rehabilitating threatened and corrupted aquatic environments with proven success and places such as Crystal River, Homosassa River, the Caloosahatchee River, and the Indian River lagoon. 00:15:26:00 - 00:15:53:11 Speaker 1 I've seen firsthand how C and shoreline completely reset the ecosystem, and Crystal River, transforming from a mucky, algae dominated system to one with plants that actually belong there. The water used to be full of Lyngby and hydrilla, with a thick bottom layer of muck that smelled like rotten eggs, but with sea and shorelines, comprehensive muck removal and planting of native eelgrass, the system is now beautiful, crystal clear, with lush eelgrass meadows. 00:15:53:15 - 00:16:19:21 Speaker 1 The manatees are feasting. Fish have returned. Ecotourism is booming and property values have significantly increased. Sea and shrine is committed to restoring and preserving Florida's communities and aquatic ecosystems. Because they're Floridians and these are their communities to. To find out how you can partner with Sea and Shoreline to help your community. Visit them at ww.com. You'll be glad you did. 00:16:19:23 - 00:16:28:20 Speaker 1 All right, back to the conversation. Let's talk about your mom a little bit more. You you talked about the FBI clerk. What is the FBI clerk do? 00:16:28:22 - 00:16:52:04 Speaker 2 It was. It's funny. I have these things where she was. She was very private about it. I don't know much about all of what she does. She did. She was very always. You know, I promised to keep what I, you know, did secret or whatever, but I think she was more like a secretarial. And I, you know, I think she was there was a lot of work. 00:16:52:04 - 00:17:17:04 Speaker 2 I, I've asked her over the years, you know, when she was with us. What kind of things did you do? What were you really busy when. Because she was there when the big events assassination of Kennedy happened. And she's like, never would say. But she just would say we were so busy. And there was a lot of she said the environment was really interesting, that they had a lot of young ladies like herself. 00:17:17:06 - 00:17:47:20 Speaker 2 It was a very family kind of group. They were all very close, but I think it was mostly secretarial. But I do have a picture of her with Hoover, with all the, the similarly the clerks in a picture with him and then some of just the when she was, you know, promoted to her position. And so it's not a lot of what she did, but she would never really say too much, I think because she was supposed to not see so much about it. 00:17:47:20 - 00:18:11:14 Speaker 2 But but I did get the sense that it was more of a secretarial nature. And but she valued the friendships like the I actually, even since my mom has passed, one of the people she worked with, I communicate with, and they were all very close, and it was a very good it sounded like a very good and positive place to be, people who really cared about what they did. 00:18:11:15 - 00:18:25:14 Speaker 2 And but we all kind of think it's hysterical that she worked for them. I don't know why, but because she's so mild mannered. And when you say she worked for the FBI, it's just like, really, mom? 00:18:25:16 - 00:18:27:08 Speaker 1 Or is it the perfect cover? 00:18:27:10 - 00:18:32:18 Speaker 2 Probably she she was probably out there doing something, I don't know. But yeah. 00:18:32:20 - 00:18:41:15 Speaker 1 So, I mean, your folks were together in Baltimore. They eventually reunited, as you say. You know, back down in in Florida, right? 00:18:41:16 - 00:19:10:17 Speaker 2 Right. My mom, my dad came back to Florida to help care for his father and really to help support, support them. And my mom, they they lots of letters back and forth and and she would come to visit and they eventually decided, yeah, this we're we're going to stick together. And so they they got married and right before it would have been my dad started at NASA in 1964 and they married in 66. 00:19:10:17 - 00:19:28:15 Speaker 2 So I think, you know, it was a big change for her to come because at that point he was in Cocoa Beach, okay. And so it was a big it was a big change, but I think and she was my grandparents only child. Oh, so it was a bit of a I think it would have been a much more difficult move. 00:19:28:16 - 00:19:47:15 Speaker 2 But my grandparents loved my father like a son and treated him like a son. And so I think losing their daughter to Florida, right? I think because it was my dad, it made it okay. And but but lots of cookies were exchanged. And so. 00:19:47:17 - 00:19:48:20 Speaker 1 Who was really making. 00:19:48:21 - 00:19:52:10 Speaker 2 Who was really making? That's the family joke. Who's really making the cookies? 00:19:52:11 - 00:19:56:09 Speaker 1 Nice. So he left in advance a right. 00:19:56:10 - 00:20:12:09 Speaker 2 He left Westinghouse came down originally to Honeywell in Tampa, and I think there was some they were changing programs, whatever. My uncle actually worked for NASA up in Virginia and told my dad, you should apply. You should definitely apply. 00:20:12:10 - 00:20:13:01 Speaker 1 What did he do? 00:20:13:02 - 00:20:39:04 Speaker 2 You're my my uncle. He was a ended up being a PhD in mechanical engineering, but he worked on the heat shield for the Apollo spacecraft. So that was one of the more materials kind of science. But he was also he was my my dad's brother in law. He married my my dad's younger sister. But again, he was a brilliant, wow, brilliant man. 00:20:39:06 - 00:20:46:19 Speaker 2 So intelligent. But he's the one that encouraged my dad to apply. And that's how dad ended up there at NASA. 00:20:46:21 - 00:21:07:06 Speaker 1 I'm interested to hear how much your dad talks about it. You know, still hopefully those. I mean, it's the dawn of the space race and that age, you know, heading into what, the early mid 60s, right, with the Saturn and and Mercury running into to Apollo. That's incredible stuff. 00:21:07:08 - 00:21:36:09 Speaker 2 Yeah. He's got so many stories. He is actually in the book Moon Port where it's a history of NASA. And I've got the articles. This story is one that is in that book and is there is at the time titled Loneliest Man at the Cape. And the story was my father, I believe it's in 64 just started, and he was to take data measurements of a hurricane that was going to pass right over the space center. 00:21:36:10 - 00:21:57:06 Speaker 2 And so he went out to the blockhouse by himself to take measurements while the hurricane passed. And I think somebody was supposed to come out there to be with him and the person didn't come. He tells the story that he's out there and he gets a call from, I think, one of the original, like German, the German accent, one of the like von Braun type guys. 00:21:57:07 - 00:22:09:18 Speaker 2 Right. Like, what are you doing out there by yourself? But, you know, didn't the other guy come? So my dad stayed the night and with everything going on around him and took measurements. 00:22:09:21 - 00:22:12:18 Speaker 1 You say the blockhouse is at a term of art for. 00:22:12:22 - 00:22:27:18 Speaker 2 Just a it's a concrete block, basically on the cape. Okay. And so he's just in this concrete block building by himself taking measurements. And so yeah. So that was his claim to fame and how he got the nickname Hurricane Jones. 00:22:27:19 - 00:22:28:13 Speaker 1 Nice. 00:22:28:15 - 00:22:32:19 Speaker 2 And so but that was the beginning of his career out at the Space Center. 00:22:32:20 - 00:22:39:21 Speaker 1 Wow. In what I mean from from there. What was his job there originally? 00:22:40:03 - 00:23:04:02 Speaker 2 He did a lot of instrumentation work. And then towards the time where we were really into the Apollo program, one of the main things he did was on lightning detection. I think they realized that when they would launch a rocket, that that would basically create a spark, you'd have enough electricity in the atmosphere that just the launch itself would generate enough electricity. 00:23:04:02 - 00:23:27:09 Speaker 2 So you would essentially create lightning. Wow. He did a lot of work on that. And basically how to secure the vehicles and how to when, when should we launch? They would be able to measure the amount of conductivity in the atmosphere so that it would become like another go no go situation. So that was one of the things that he was very involved in. 00:23:27:09 - 00:23:54:01 Speaker 2 And then eventually that led him to he and another NASA engineer, Ron, developed the lightning detection that you see on TV. My dad has the patent for that. Wow. And the original version. And so it was basically you taking measurements and triangulating into where the location of the lightning was. So he Enron what? He got a patent for that, which was pretty cool. 00:23:54:03 - 00:24:18:17 Speaker 2 And so I'd say early part of his career during the Apollo program was primarily instrumentation lightning. So I've always been told, lightning your bike like I am a nut when it comes to lightning. But but that was the early part. And then after the Apollo program ended, that was a really rough time because the Space Center really there was a reduction in force. 00:24:18:17 - 00:24:22:03 Speaker 2 There was a difficult period before the shuttle program. 00:24:22:05 - 00:24:25:19 Speaker 1 How long was that gap between between those two? 00:24:25:22 - 00:24:51:03 Speaker 2 So I think the last major launch was 19. My sister was born on the date that Apollo-Soyuz launched July of 75. And so pretty much shortly thereafter, things really started to slow down and become pretty difficult. My father was lucky enough to survive the riff, but it was a difficult, very difficult period for the space program. I think transitioning. 00:24:51:05 - 00:25:20:11 Speaker 2 And after that, when he moved on to the shuttle program, he is area of specialization became the landing aids for the alternative landing site. So he at that point in the 80s and early 90s, he would travel to Zaragoza, Spain, Banjul, the Gambia, Morocco, Marica, you know, wow. And Guam. Anytime there was a launch, they would send out teams to man the these alternative landing sites. 00:25:20:11 - 00:25:39:07 Speaker 2 So getting out the equipment and all of those things. So that was a lot of hours. And you know, if you weren't part of the team for that, you know, you'd be control room type. Not in the you know, he was always more in the energy side, which is was down lower than the one what you see on TV, I gotcha. 00:25:39:08 - 00:26:02:00 Speaker 2 He was never on TV. That was a challenging thing for the family because you know who? He'd be gone for several weeks at a time. And especially when we were getting into the more frequent launches, we would get into that. And so but that was a very good transition for him. He liked that work, and he was the tower that's out there, the landing tower out at the space center. 00:26:02:00 - 00:26:19:19 Speaker 2 Now, he was, I think, kind of the project manager for that. So I think he always loved engineering, and as long as he was doing engineering, he was happy. So that was but it was a hard time. I mean, I think there was a lot of worry within the family. Like, what does this mean for us? 00:26:19:20 - 00:26:22:16 Speaker 1 Right. How long did he stay? 00:26:22:18 - 00:26:45:16 Speaker 2 He worked for NASA for 40 years. In fact, there was one point where he was set to retire, and he's like, I'm just not ready. And I think it was partly he was working on the tower project and he wanted to finish. He was just he loved what he did. And then even when he retired, he was a docent out at the Apollo. 00:26:45:19 - 00:27:07:11 Speaker 2 You take the at the space center, you take the bus out to the Apollo Visitor Center. And he just always thought it was amazing that people would come up. And he told them about the Apollo program, and they'd want to take his picture because he was a real NASA engineer, and he just thought that was crazy. But but when you think about it, it's like, okay, that does make sense. 00:27:07:11 - 00:27:12:18 Speaker 2 You're history. Yeah. You you were part of this amazing accomplishment. 00:27:12:23 - 00:27:22:06 Speaker 1 Yeah. I want to go back to your mom for a second. What happened when your mom came down to Florida? Did she stay with the FBI in some way? Did she take other words? 00:27:22:07 - 00:27:56:22 Speaker 2 She. She. When she came, she left the FBI actually have her letter where? It's they. We understand. This is wonderful. Go. You know, Godspeed. And she came down and, you know, they got married. And soon thereafter, my brother arrived. And so she was a full time mom for, you know, my whole life and really made everything possible. I mean, she, you know, my dad had to work a lot of hours, and so she made sure we got where we needed to go. 00:27:56:23 - 00:28:21:15 Speaker 2 And they sacrificed so much. It was whatever. Piano lessons, ballet lessons, whatever it is. Mom made sure, and she made sure the homework got done. And we were, you know, flying. Right. But she just a super supportive. It just the house would not be like our family would not be without that centering force was what she was to us. 00:28:21:17 - 00:28:34:12 Speaker 1 Yeah. Tell me about your earliest memories there in that regard. Because you're I mean, you're basically born into, essentially the the shadow of Apollo 11, right? I mean, right around right around the. 00:28:34:14 - 00:28:53:03 Speaker 2 Three months. Right. I was born three months before we landed on the moon. And it's an amazing place to grow up. I think my family and the people that I was growing up with, I think we came up believing that you can do anything. Yeah. And because you saw it happening. 00:28:53:04 - 00:28:53:12 Speaker 1 Right? 00:28:53:13 - 00:29:18:13 Speaker 2 Right. And so if we work together, if we work hard, we can achieve it. So I think I was very fortunate to grow up on this base case because it's just the American candy spirit, like it was just embodied there. Yeah. I think it was an amazing place to grow up. I think the hardest part was going through the challenger loss was difficult. 00:29:18:14 - 00:29:47:12 Speaker 2 Yeah, I think that memory is still seared because I think I was saw it. And so there's loss to and you recognize what it means in the sacrifice people made. Yeah. So I think it was it was all I'm just blessed to have grown up there. Even though there was loss. We came through it, learned from it and got back up and appreciate so much because it's happened before those losses. 00:29:47:12 - 00:30:14:02 Speaker 2 And and my dad had worked with Mike Smith, who was the, you know, basically commander of that. So that one hit home really hard. But I think it's we understood the sacrifice and appreciated the sacrifice and learned and kept going. And so I think that was the other thing we learned from it is that these horrible things can happen, but we have to keep going forward. 00:30:14:04 - 00:30:40:19 Speaker 1 Yeah. Let's take a minute to talk about my friends at Resource Environmental Solutions. Our state presents unique challenges with its diverse ecosystems, landscapes, and the many demands on its natural resources. That's why Rez uses an innovative approach and creative solutions to help municipalities, agencies and local water resource groups navigate the ever changing landscape of environmental regulations in Florida and throughout the country. 00:30:40:21 - 00:31:09:09 Speaker 1 Rez actively restores habitats, hydrological regimes and ecosystem functions across Florida, from the Panhandle to the heartland to the Florida Keys, and everywhere in between. They focus on restoring floodplains and wetlands and improving water quality, which benefits a wide array of species that call Florida home. With an unwavering commitment to Florida's unique ecological communities, Rez upholds long term stewardship practices guaranteeing sustainable outcomes that endure. 00:31:09:11 - 00:31:22:20 Speaker 1 Discover more about their work and commitment to Florida's communities and the environmental challenges they face by visiting. Wwwres.us. All right, now back to the conversation. 00:31:22:22 - 00:31:42:12 Speaker 3 Talk a little bit about I mean you have the cape which is pinned, you know, basically directly between the ocean and Indian River lagoon there. I mean, I guess it's like banana River slash Indian River slash Indian River lagoon. And then on the other side you've got from Titusville, Rockledge, all those places is the Saint Johns River. 00:31:42:15 - 00:31:47:18 Speaker 1 What was that? What was your relationship to the natural world around them? 00:31:47:19 - 00:32:13:23 Speaker 2 It's so funny. I, I look back on it because it's like, how did I get to this? The career that I do now. And I, I remember even little things like when I was young, just seeing the horseshoe crab. That's a distinct memory. Yeah. In the lagoon, I think. I just always remember the beauty of it. And and then crossing, we'd go to Orlando periodically and crossing the Saint Johns River. 00:32:13:23 - 00:32:45:23 Speaker 2 And although it's just a little thing there. Yeah, but just the vastness of the floodplain and always just thought it was relaxing and beautiful. But the lagoon has just a special place for me that I realize more now than I think I did in the past, but I just always the beauty and the peacefulness of it. And I think you take it for granted what it, because I grew up in Brevard County, did not have as many people as it does now, but it was just beautiful. 00:32:45:23 - 00:33:10:06 Speaker 2 And I, I have right even now I have my favorite. You come in to Titusville from highway 50, and there was a group of palm trees that I just it's just classic Florida. Yeah. And so I just have all of these images and appreciation. And I think it grew as I went to undergrad at UCF and I was on the crew team. 00:33:10:08 - 00:33:32:16 Speaker 2 I'm the coxswain. And we would get up at 5:00 in the morning and we'd go out on the water and the sun would come up on Lake Pickett, and there was just nothing so beautiful. Yeah. And so it's just I think looking back on it kind of Waterworld has always been around me, and I always, I look at it as just these distinct pictures. 00:33:32:18 - 00:33:53:09 Speaker 2 I have my favorite. Even today, I have my favorite maritime. I have my favorite group of palm trees on the planet, and I have my, you know, on Lake Pickett. At the time, there was this old house that was on the water just passing it as we would row by just the oars in the warlocks moving in that sound. 00:33:53:09 - 00:34:04:18 Speaker 2 And then the war's going into the water, and it'd be smooth water, and the oranges and the yellows of the sun coming up, and just. It just doesn't get better. 00:34:04:20 - 00:34:10:01 Speaker 4 Of course. All broken by you yelling and screaming. The the rowers. So. 00:34:10:03 - 00:34:16:21 Speaker 2 Yeah. Bauman. Pull. But yeah, just those images of Florida. 00:34:16:23 - 00:34:34:15 Speaker 4 Yeah. I mean, you mentioned UCF. I was going to do like I was going to ask you about like middle, middle high school, that kind of thing. I think I've got a sense anyways. Like once you once you mention your grandfather and that kind of that kind of genius and inventiveness, I was like, okay, I think you're probably in your. 00:34:34:15 - 00:34:54:16 Speaker 1 Mind, you know, at some point, you know, aiming toward what you studied at UCF, like everyone I knew and know you before this, as you know, an a long time, you know, attorney at the water management district, but you didn't study. You studied something completely different. And it was engineering, right? 00:34:54:18 - 00:35:27:03 Speaker 2 Right. I started out and I think I was very math was I always enjoyed math and science. And so I think it was, well, engineering and I loved engineering. I did actually undergrad in industrial, and I just loved pushing my brain in that way. I got a job and worked for a little bit after I graduated, but then I just felt drawn back to Florida and again, the water world, I think just calling me. 00:35:27:03 - 00:35:51:11 Speaker 2 And when I was up and I was working after my industrial engineering degree up in the Virginia area, and I rode up there on the Occoquan and somebody just needed a coxswain. So I was like, yeah, sure, I'll do it. And and it's just the beauty of it. I just can't explain. When you're out on a crucial, it's just there's a quiet and a peacefulness and a beauty to it. 00:35:51:13 - 00:36:22:10 Speaker 2 And so decided, let's do environmental engineering. Let's check this out. So I came back and while I was in the engineering program at University of Florida doing my master's work, there were several professors that were expert witnesses. And I said, oh, this is really interesting. And so that's when I decided, okay, I think I can merge these couple things, because I was always told in my one of my professors in undergrad, they always said, you're an engineer. 00:36:22:12 - 00:36:42:16 Speaker 2 And I was like, yeah, I am. You can actually write. My dad writes. Really? So I was it used to I was the first time I heard engineers, right. I was like, that's not right. Because my dad really writes well. Yeah. But so I think, well I right well enough I am not the greatest. But I was like, I think I can make something happen here. 00:36:42:16 - 00:36:51:04 Speaker 2 And I got over to finish my degree and then went to law school and it was the perfect fit. It was like once I got into it, I was like, this is it. 00:36:51:05 - 00:36:54:06 Speaker 1 But why law? At that point. 00:36:54:08 - 00:37:18:17 Speaker 2 I think I was looking for something I wasn't, I think, I don't think I could ever measure up to the engineer. My dad is okay. There's a creativity that I don't possess in engineering. I it's definitely benefited in me, my law career because when somebody I examining a witness and they're saying something that defies the laws of physics, I'm like, no, let's try that again. 00:37:18:19 - 00:37:44:15 Speaker 2 That's not going to work. So it enabled me to be easier to examine, okay. Because what I do and what an attorney does for an agency, an environmental agency is a lot of expert witness work and people that are scientists and engineers. So it it made it much easier for me because I had a general sense of whether what they were saying would be accurate or not, but I think I just felt like I'm not that. 00:37:44:17 - 00:37:56:02 Speaker 2 I mean, I did well in school, but I'm not my dad. I'm not that good. Yeah. And I wanted to, I think, deviate a little bit. And I think I could be really good at this. 00:37:56:08 - 00:38:11:02 Speaker 1 You spent what I, I think I think I was like a year in private practice. Good firm. Oh, yeah. But you were done in a year. What what happened? Was it you just don't want to. You don't want to build every single minute of your day or. 00:38:11:07 - 00:38:33:13 Speaker 2 I did not think that was fun. But what happened was, I had gotten to know my professors at the University of Florida Law school really well, and I had done really well in those classes. It was funny. I got they had this thing called a book award. If you get the highest score in the exam and and what it was. 00:38:33:15 - 00:38:56:02 Speaker 2 It's so funny now looking back on it. But there was a trick and on my water law class, of course, and it was basically the secondary impacts rule. And the professor had reversed it and done something to you. And I guess it was the only one who caught it. And so anyway, so I had gotten to know them well, and I was involved in the conference. 00:38:56:02 - 00:39:16:05 Speaker 2 So I think they saw something in me. And a position opened up at the Saint Johns River Water Management District, and they happened to know Mary Jane Angelo. They told her, you've got to you've got to talk to this. At the time, Jones and Mary Ellen Jones, you've got to talk to her. And then they reached out to me and they said, you've got to apply for this job. 00:39:16:05 - 00:39:38:23 Speaker 2 So it was really honestly my professors. He said, this is you. And so I think it stemmed from just for whatever reason, I, I just felt like it was just a clicked and I'm not. And I joined the firm. They were very good to me. But I just after my experience in law school and I think my professors saw it too. 00:39:39:00 - 00:39:46:00 Speaker 2 They're like, no, this is this is you, this is you. And they were right, you know, 20, almost 27 years later. 00:39:46:01 - 00:39:46:11 Speaker 5 Yeah. 00:39:46:12 - 00:40:10:11 Speaker 1 And and you started, you know, entry level attorney at the district. And obviously I think everyone if you don't ended up as general counsel at, at the district, I am curious. You know, I would have assumed you'd already be more valuable than someone who had been, you know, who, like myself, had got some sort of social science degree, you know, before going to law school. 00:40:10:12 - 00:40:26:03 Speaker 1 But having that, you know, engineering, you know, background that that experience must have been a huge plus, maybe from the very beginning. What is an entry level attorney at the district? Do what I mean, what are they hand them in terms of their work. 00:40:26:05 - 00:40:48:11 Speaker 2 From the very beginning, I started with environmental resource permitting and, you know, assisting staff with legal questions, sort of like the secondary, like what my law school exam question was. And I was like, okay, I can do that. And reviewing documents and, you know, conservation easements, things like that, but only on the general counsel is like, I think you're ready for a case. 00:40:48:11 - 00:41:14:13 Speaker 2 And I was like, I. Are you kidding me? I don't know what I think. I they had a lot of confidence in me and so got me involved in litigation and litigating some of some environmental cases and concept of use permitting cases. And the other thing that I was very fortunate, many attorneys took me under their wing, you know, people both at the district. 00:41:14:17 - 00:41:41:14 Speaker 2 And I would be remiss if I didn't think Tom Madden had a huge impact on my career in terms of teaching me. He was my supervisor for many years, and he's still at the district, but I would say publicly I owe him a lot. A very good teacher. And so and I've learned a lot, all of my general counsels that I had over the years were very good to me and took time to spend that, you know, train me and on my writing, make that better. 00:41:41:16 - 00:42:04:14 Speaker 2 So very early on, it was just, you know, helping people with permits and reviewing those. And then as time progressed, as you progress up, like attorney wanted to, you're kind of doing that day to day permitting questions, helping staff because the rules can be, you know, you get unique situations. And it's sometimes it's hard to figure out what the answer is. 00:42:04:16 - 00:42:31:08 Speaker 2 And as you get beyond that into like a senior attorney, then you get into the policy questions and helping the the at that time, whoever the Ed or division director in providing options, here's some of the policy questions you're going to face. And here's some potential options. So it takes it's a lot it takes time to build. But there were so many attorneys. 00:42:31:10 - 00:42:52:02 Speaker 2 You know Catherine Minelli I learned a lot from her. Bill Condon, so much from them. Bill Abrams, those were my general counsels that I, you know, just I learned a lot from. So I learned a lot from them and then attorneys that I sometimes was on the same side with and sometimes not. They were actually all very generous to me. 00:42:52:02 - 00:43:14:07 Speaker 2 I think maybe that they saw in me that I really wanted to learn. And I also have always approached this job as problem solving. When I became general counsel, my advice to all my attorneys was always sometimes we do have to say no, but when you have to say that, I also want you to tell people what they can do. 00:43:14:09 - 00:43:35:03 Speaker 2 It's not it. It's a collaborative process from the standpoint of, you know, we are regulators and we have to enforce the law. But at the same time, people are trying to get a water supply permit or, you know what, build whatever. And so there's a balance to be achieved. And so that was I've always seen it that way. 00:43:35:03 - 00:43:48:12 Speaker 2 And so maybe people responded to me like okay, she she wants to problem solve. But I have always found that the people and I would name, you know, Beth Ross at South Florida Water Management District was a great teacher to me. 00:43:48:14 - 00:44:08:12 Speaker 1 I think that's a lost quite a bit in some places it happens, some places it doesn't. But I think it's an important part of, in my mind, good governance, at least when I was doing it, which is of course, I mean your first your first responsibility is to the law and, and the rules that, that emanate from it. 00:44:08:18 - 00:44:30:13 Speaker 1 But you're dealing with folks that don't do what you do for a living. And sometimes it seems like, you know, it seems like I think to people that you offer something like, this is a thing I'd like to do. And then the answer is just no, go back and try again. And so you bring something new. And again, it's like, no, you can't do that. 00:44:30:13 - 00:44:46:16 Speaker 1 It's like, why not just tell them, you know, get to the part that, you know, exist from your experience already. You know, it's to get to that. I wonder if you credit kind of the, the engineer in you that that part of your DNA to problem solving. 00:44:46:18 - 00:45:12:08 Speaker 2 I think so I think that was part of it. I, I feel like that our job is to solve problems and to make progress. The other thing, it's funny, if you would ask our current general counsel, Aaron Preston, when I would do interviews for attorneys, I always ask the same question. Everyone got this one question, and it was, what was your favorite document that you've ever drafted? 00:45:12:09 - 00:45:38:12 Speaker 2 And I wasn't looking for the answer, but I was looking for the response. The people that I ended up usually hiring were the ones that sat back in the chair, tilted their head, smiled because you could see what it meant to them. For me, this job that I have isn't just a job, it's my craft. Yeah. And so I would always ask that question. 00:45:38:12 - 00:46:18:10 Speaker 2 And invariably the attorneys that that we would be interviewing and they're usually some of them law students and their last semester whatever. But but it was very to watch them. And the ones where it was, they had trouble or they really couldn't come up with it. Then I was like, so it's the ones that you you could see the fondness and and so I think it's, there's the seen it as what I do as a craft and taking pride in the profession and recognizing that my craft is partly, you know, solving problems and taking that seriously. 00:46:18:10 - 00:46:26:10 Speaker 2 I think so many people now see things as just jobs, but not their craft. To me, there's a big difference. 00:46:26:12 - 00:46:46:15 Speaker 1 In in law and government is is some of that, I guess the the attorney, which is the distinction between persuasion and winning meaning? Meaning obviously, it's like when you end up litigating you, you're something is going to happen in the end. It's like, but it's bigger than that, right? It seems. 00:46:46:16 - 00:47:12:17 Speaker 2 To me it is. I think it's when I've litigated, I, I took so much energy into drafting my point to make. Of course you want to win. But to me it was like that. We got there the right way and that I've persuaded a judge that this is right and just under the law, and that matters. And so that ability to persuade is important. 00:47:12:18 - 00:47:38:05 Speaker 2 And, and I've been told people said I, I've had, you know, I deliver bad news sometimes, but people say you deliver bad news. Well, but but but part of it, I think, is because I convey that I'm trying to help them and solve a problem. And I take this seriously as my craft. And it's important for me to try to understand where people are at, you know, seeing it from their perspective. 00:47:38:06 - 00:47:56:14 Speaker 2 I think that's all very important and I think can get lost in the world in which we live. It's it's challenging, but I try to emphasize with our staff and, you know, we're problem solvers and we need to understand where people are coming from and treat people with respect. 00:47:56:15 - 00:48:22:10 Speaker 1 Do you think that's why? And you've been at it for a few years now on the the assistant executive director role, do you think that was part of the reason why you were selected to that? Because it's a it's a shortstop. You kind of position where everything isn't just your legal problem anymore. It's your all the things are all of the problems are now, you know, yours to help, you know, bring forward in a, in a successful way. 00:48:22:11 - 00:48:24:20 Speaker 1 Do you think that's why you got chosen? 00:48:24:21 - 00:48:48:07 Speaker 2 I think it was a couple things. I think it was just the, the, you know, the years of experience. I think it is part of that problem solving kind of ethos that I have. And I think when you get to this position, it matters to me. It matters that it's not just a job. When you get to this level, it's like you eat it, live it, breathe it kind of thing. 00:48:48:08 - 00:49:12:00 Speaker 2 Not to the, you know, I love my family and all of that, but I guess what I'm saying is that it matters at my core. Yeah, Florida's water resources matter to me, and I want to leave it. And I do think about my children that I've helped in rulemaking, that I hope makes a difference in Central Florida and North Florida, that I've left the world a better place. 00:49:12:02 - 00:49:41:02 Speaker 2 And so I think part of the reason that I was asked to to do this role is that I have that viewpoint, that it really matters, and it's not just a job. And I really want us to be successful and move the needle on, on important topics. So I think it was, you know, just experience being there. The attitude that I have in terms of solving problems, working with people and then just that it matters. 00:49:41:04 - 00:50:07:08 Speaker 2 Honestly, I haven't applied for a job at the district since maybe senior assistant general counsel. I've always been like, my goal, honestly, was just to be senior like I thought when I started at the district, if I make senior, that is like awesome. I'm so excited. And then people, hey, would you do deputy? Oh, okay. Sure. And then would you do general? 00:50:07:09 - 00:50:23:14 Speaker 2 Okay. I think it's just because of the work that I've done and the care that I've put into it, which is, it's just interesting. I haven't really like applied people are like, could you do this? Would you be willing to do it? And I'm like, okay. 00:50:23:20 - 00:50:32:14 Speaker 1 You're either there to serve or you're not. And if you're not, it shows. And if you are, then if that's where you're supposed to be, then then that's where you're supposed to be. 00:50:32:16 - 00:51:02:17 Speaker 2 Yeah. And I think that the executive director I work for, Mike Register, he's a servant leader. And that's what he talks about with our staff all the time. And I think we work well together, in part because I think I'm in service to you. And I think generally when it's a special thing, when you have a position where you're in service, you know, we forget about a lot of things, but the people that were in service, if you think back over your life, the people you remember are the people that were in service to you. 00:51:02:19 - 00:51:22:04 Speaker 2 And that we're doing for you, trying to help you. Yeah. And and that's special. I talk to our staff about that. You just think how special your job is. You're in service to the public and to our stakeholders. And that's a big thing. The work that you do will be remembered. Look at what you've done to that. 00:51:22:05 - 00:51:37:15 Speaker 2 We the upper basin. It's been, you know, the restoration project there, like Apopka, is basically near death. Look at what you've done. Your in service in service to everyone. How amazing that you get to be part of that. And you should be proud of that. 00:51:37:17 - 00:52:00:11 Speaker 1 Those are a few things I want to talk about it because I want. It's like because when it when it when it goes well and you're leading and you're serving, then the tangible thing shows up in the midst of that. And I'm curious, the first thing that came to my mind was the turnaround at Lake Apopka, among not relational things that you're most proud of. 00:52:00:12 - 00:52:10:13 Speaker 1 What is like does how high is on that list? How? I mean, what are those things that you're most proud of, that you are associated with an organization that's that's done. 00:52:10:14 - 00:52:42:09 Speaker 2 So I think Apopka is an amazing story. When you look at where it was, there was basically zero submerged aquatic vegetation around that lake and now around the perimeter. We, you know, over 90% the subs coming back. And we met the target. What's amazing partly in Doctor Eric talks about it a lot, is that our scientists set that target as and it was based on when they thought vegetation would come back and they were right. 00:52:42:10 - 00:53:06:19 Speaker 2 You know, we met the target and were starting to see that vegetation come back. So that is an amazing achievement. I think the Upper Basin project is just it's unreal. It's won several awards. And to do that and to see the progress is amazing. So I think those two projects, although not, you know, some of it I got to watch while I was out. 00:53:06:19 - 00:53:19:12 Speaker 2 I've been at the district and I think the new things that we're doing, the Crane Creek project that we just finished last year, how that's moving the needle for the Indian River lagoon, because that the Indian River lagoon is just near and dear to my heart. 00:53:19:13 - 00:53:23:02 Speaker 1 Tell me, tell me a little about the detail that for folks that don't know about it. 00:53:23:03 - 00:53:48:10 Speaker 2 So over the history of the lagoon, there's actually a ridge that's kind of been on the western side of the county. And it gets actually the ridge. It's kind of a high point. And it's that high point separates the Saint Johns River basin from the Indian River lagoon basin at its closest point. That ridge is about a half mile to the lagoon and at its most distant, about ten miles. 00:53:48:10 - 00:54:08:16 Speaker 2 But in any event, over a hundred years ago, that ridge was breached for a variety of reasons to make the land west of the ridge more productive and useful and to provide flood protection. And they didn't know at the time that that was going to increase the amount of fresh water to the lagoon. And, you know, fresh water in a brackish system is not ideal. 00:54:08:16 - 00:54:41:12 Speaker 2 And then the increase in nutrients. So we have most recently at the district over the last decade, we've been working on basically restoring that divide with some projects. And so we have the C-1 project, the main canal, where we basically put a structure in so that we can recreate the divide and get water, you know, stop that fresh and nutrient laden water from going to the length, treating it and getting it back to the Saint Johns River, which has the dual benefit. 00:54:41:13 - 00:55:03:12 Speaker 2 We've helped the lagoon, but we've also made water available to the Saint Johns River, and we have users downstream. Melbourne uses water from the Lake Washington, which is on the river, and so it's an alternative water supply source. So C10 was the latest of those Rita versions. And so and it was it's a great example of a partnership. 00:55:03:12 - 00:55:30:00 Speaker 2 Brevard County was instrumental. They were constructing a roadway at about the same time and they needed to borrow Pitt. And we said, hey, we need an stay. And, you know, save $2 million because we work together. So that project is operational now. And, you know, in terms of nitrogen, you know, over 20,000 pounds of nitrogen a year, phosphorus, over 3,000 pounds of total phosphorus a year saved from, you know, going into the lagoon. 00:55:30:05 - 00:55:50:07 Speaker 2 And we got a seven MGD benefit to the river. So that's an amazing project and I think will bear fruit. I think it's one of the last big regional projects we have, one that we're in design on now called the C-10. We're doing a similar thing creating an SD A and again, treating the water, getting it where originally went to. 00:55:50:08 - 00:56:13:20 Speaker 2 You can't bring everything back. Sure. But we're making progress and and we're seeing it. We had last year as over 70% increase in coverage of seagrass, which is great. And it's a combination of projects. We had a little bit of a dry year leading into that assessment, but what that tells you is in a dry year, you're not getting the nutrient runoff and the TS. 00:56:13:22 - 00:56:43:20 Speaker 2 So if we can stop that from happening, we can we can get this egress back. So there's a lot happening to be proud of in what we're doing. And those are the kind of things that as a person in my profession, you want to do, you want to be part of projects that move the needle and bring the lagoon back to what I knew as a child, and I think it's possible you have to be optimistic, and I am what the county has done, what the DDP has done in support of the IRA. 00:56:43:22 - 00:56:49:15 Speaker 2 I mean, everybody's, I think, working as hard as they can to make it better. And we're seeing the result. 00:56:49:17 - 00:56:50:09 Speaker 5 Yeah. 00:56:50:11 - 00:57:11:12 Speaker 1 Yeah. It's exciting to see. I know I told you I'd get you out of here in time. If you'll forgive me. We'll go to. I want to ask you a few. Like the kind of the generalized questions I think I know the answer to the. I'll try to one which is like, which was the. It's really just a question about optimism in terms of are you optimistic about the future of the environment in Florida? 00:57:11:12 - 00:57:17:14 Speaker 1 And you can, you know, whittle it down to, to the Saint John's district if you want, but I think you speak as widely as you wish. 00:57:17:15 - 00:57:44:15 Speaker 2 I'm very optimistic. It's a it's a hard road. I'd say on the water quality side, the big challenge, it's going to be legacy nutrients. We've got several projects trying to figure that out on the water quantity side. I think it's interesting. And in the Central Florida area, North Florida area, we're seeing 2025 as that point where we're reaching sustainable yield and our utilities are working hard on alternative, alternative water supply. 00:57:44:15 - 00:58:17:21 Speaker 2 But I think that's going to be the big question and how we keep moving. There's a lot of work being done in Central Florida. Hundreds of millions really over $1 billion in projects. More than that, probably. But everybody's got projects either in designer actively being constructed. So there's work happening. I'm optimistic because it's it's funny. You had the 2015 regional water supply plan for CFD, and I remember the discussion about all these projects, and here we are in 2026 and they're being built. 00:58:17:21 - 00:58:39:02 Speaker 2 And I know to some people that might be a long time, but these are many hundreds of millions of dollars projects. It takes time. If I would leave anybody with the message, there is hope, plans, work. You got to just stick to it and see if I is a perfect example. These things that were in a plan ten years ago are being built. 00:58:39:05 - 00:58:39:15 Speaker 5 Yeah. 00:58:39:18 - 00:58:59:10 Speaker 2 And so I think we're going to get there. It's just going to be it's hard, it's expensive. And the projects are challenging. And you know there's all of these issues with emerging constituents and all these other complexities and things coming. But I think I was born in the space case, say we got a man to the moon, we can solve it. 00:58:59:11 - 00:59:01:01 Speaker 5 Yeah, yeah, I like that. 00:59:01:02 - 00:59:12:11 Speaker 1 What advice would you give to young person who's who's just walking the door that you're asking that question to? Or they're thinking about walking the door now they know what to say, what to be ready for. What do you say to them? 00:59:12:12 - 00:59:31:05 Speaker 2 I encourage people, and I talked to my sons about it. As you're going forward in your career, I really believe in treating your career as your craft. I really believe that. Don't look at things as just a job. It should matter if it if your job and the work that you do doesn't matter to you. Keep keep looking. 00:59:31:05 - 00:59:56:19 Speaker 2 Keep striving for what matters to you. Because I would want for anyone to be satisfied in their life, to be proud and to be fulfilled in what they do. And so if you're finding that fulfillment and you're this is my craft, this is my profession, then I think you're on the right track. And if you're not quite there, keep, keep tweaking, keep looking. 00:59:57:01 - 01:00:20:17 Speaker 2 Yeah. Because at the end of the day, we we spend so much time at work. And I think it would be so hard if I didn't find fulfillment in what I do at work. I mean, I find loads of fulfillment with my family, but as much time as we spend at work, it would be hard if you didn't find that fulfillment and pride and craft. 01:00:20:22 - 01:00:21:20 Speaker 5 Yeah. 01:00:21:22 - 01:00:27:04 Speaker 1 Mary Ellen Winkler, thank you so much for for your time. It was a that was so much fun. 01:00:27:06 - 01:00:29:17 Speaker 2 Thank you so much. It's a pleasure. 01:00:29:18 - 01:00:47:17 Speaker 1 Well, that's it for this episode. Thanks for listening to Waterford Fighting. And thank you once again, Torres and Sea and Shoreline for making it possible. If you're enjoying the show, please be sure to subscribe on whatever platform you use. And don't forget to leave a five star rating and review. You can follow the show on LinkedIn and Instagram at et al. 01:00:47:17 - 01:01:06:20 Speaker 1 Water pod and you can reach me directly at FL Water pod@gmail.com. Send me your comments and suggestions for who and or what you'd like to know more about production. This podcast is by Lonely Fox Studios. Thanks to Carl Soren for making the best of what he had to work with, and in David Barfield for the amazing graphics and technical assistance. 01:01:07:00 - 01:01:24:19 Speaker 1 A very special thank you goes out to Bo Spring from the Bo Spring Band for giving permission to use his music for the podcast. The song is called Doing Work for Free. You should check out the band live wherever great music is sold. Join me next time for another amazing conversation with someone who has helped shape water and environmental policy in the Sunshine State. 01:01:24:21 - 01:01:28:03 Speaker 1 Until then, keep your whiskey close and your water closer.