00:00:06:16 - 00:00:27:03 Speaker 1 Welcome to Waterford fighting. We discussed the past, present and future of water in Florida with the people who make it happen. I'm your host, Brett Cyphers. This episode of Waterford Fighting is brought to you by sea and shoreline. Sea and shoreline is the southeast leading innovator, protecting coastal communities from devastating storms and restoring ecosystems that once faced ecological collapse. 00:00:27:05 - 00:00:49:12 Speaker 1 Visit their website at sea and shoreline.com. If you enjoy the discussions here on Waterford Fighting, then you should definitely be reading the Florida Specifier and listening to the Florida Specifier podcast. The specifiers become Florida's environmental news source of record, and the podcast is your go to place for staying up to speed on environmental news and newsmakers here in the Sunshine State. 00:00:49:14 - 00:01:13:18 Speaker 1 You can join the discussion as we explore the latest environmental news and developments that matter to you. Go to WW dot Florida specifier.com or wherever only the finest of podcast are offered. All right. I've been looking forward to this conversation for a long time. Our guest is episode is Matt Caldwell. That should be a pretty familiar name to you out there. 00:01:13:20 - 00:01:36:13 Speaker 1 I had the pleasure of serving as staff in the house. At the same time. That part of your tenure and the House of Representatives, and I'm grateful that he came on to spend some time with me today, just to scratch the surface on the background and do a lot of reading here. He's a seventh generation Floridian, going back to before Florida was an actual state, which is pretty wild, a four term Florida House member. 00:01:36:13 - 00:01:57:02 Speaker 1 You can't do more. A buccaneer, an eagle, a gator. Those are all mascots, by the way. A ranger and a tree farmer. Not mascots as a real jobs. He's also the property appraiser for Lee County. And now, for at least a while, the president of the Florida State Parks Foundation. Matt, welcome to the show. Well. 00:01:57:02 - 00:02:01:23 Speaker 2 Thank you for having me. That sounds like an impressive resume. I'm not sure who you're talking about. There's. Yeah. 00:02:02:01 - 00:02:32:16 Speaker 1 There's even more there. Like you. The list of things that you've managed to get yourself pulled into is pretty incredible. And I think when we people are going to get, I think why at least maybe I have some predictions, some theories why once we get into some of the your your family history. Yeah. And so before I do the deep cut, because I'm really looking forward to spending some time I love Florida history, love Florida, but I want to start a little closer to present time with you. 00:02:32:16 - 00:02:35:14 Speaker 1 And so tell me about your mom and dad first. 00:02:35:15 - 00:03:00:23 Speaker 2 Yeah. So my mom, that's the side. That's the native Floridian. She was born in Leesburg. Her dad was born in Wildwood. They are growing up. You know, my my granddad was born in 34, which for for reference was he was 15 before they passed the fence law in Florida. Right. Like this is a different world. I mean, he he would tell stories about about driving the watermelon truck at 12 years old to Webster to to the Sale barn. 00:03:01:02 - 00:03:20:12 Speaker 2 But he had always intended to become a cattleman himself. His his mom's brothers were the ones that had the ranch, the homestead from 1826. And he was just like my other grandfather, both too young for old War two and Korean War. So they both did Cold War service. And he thought when he came back he was going to be a cattle rancher. 00:03:20:12 - 00:03:36:02 Speaker 2 He came, come back. I've never gotten the the deep details, but anybody who's a cracker could probably imagine the story that it didn't work out. He, he, he and his uncle kind of didn't see eye to eye for a long time, as I understand, but he had to get a job. So he ended up doing a couple different things. 00:03:36:02 - 00:03:52:23 Speaker 2 He worked for forestry, building fence, I think in the with the coochie forest, you know, he had a wife and a daughter, had to figure it out and eventually ended up becoming a bank teller. He, he did college for a little while at FSU, but they just they didn't have the money. And so he ended up just finding an opportunity. 00:03:53:01 - 00:04:16:18 Speaker 2 But I mean, that grew to the point that he ended up becoming the president of of multiple banks in the Atlantic, Cain cities, hills. And ultimately it's what brought them down to southwest Florida. So in 76, I think he got brought down to Lehigh Acres. The the bank. Really, when I say the bank, I mean, the only bank in Lehigh was started by a bunch of the board members of the Bank of Immokalee. 00:04:16:21 - 00:04:32:01 Speaker 2 And so that that agriculture, rural, you know, Florida connection is is how they they heard about him and he didn't think he was going to stay. He's like, yeah, we'll go down for a couple of three years, you know, help him get started, and then we'll go back to Central Florida where he's from and what he knows and loves. 00:04:32:01 - 00:04:55:00 Speaker 2 And of course, the rest is history. My mom, you know, they they she grows up there to finish high school and then go over to for my dad is from upstate South Carolina, Spartanburg area. Okay. And just coincidentally, my that grandfather also got into banking. Same kind of story. Just teller working his way up. And he ended up coming down to run a couple of Banks and Fort Myers. 00:04:55:04 - 00:05:14:20 Speaker 2 They actually didn't know each other when they were in Fort Myers. They met at for in undergrad, ended up fall in love getting married. So that would have been 1980. Right after they got married, my dad started a law school at UF. But as is sometimes the case when you get married, shortly thereafter, you find out that you're you're expecting it. 00:05:14:20 - 00:05:36:20 Speaker 2 So I was actually born four days after their first anniversary, which kind of kind of changed the trajectory. He my dad's, you know, had to go support a family. So he left law school, ended up working at Eckerd Drugs. And when I was about it was probably 82, 83. I'm like one and a half, two years old. There was an opportunity to transfer to a Fort Myers store where my grandparents were. 00:05:37:01 - 00:05:42:03 Speaker 2 And so made sense. We we moved back down there and that's that's where we've been ever since. 00:05:42:05 - 00:06:04:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. And just to, you know, to contextualize, I, I like thinking about certain place for such a fast growing state. You're from probably one of the fastest growing parts of, of the state. Do your parents ever talk about those early days, like, I'm curious, Lehigh acres, which now may be this huge ocean of of suburb back then was not wasn't. 00:06:05:00 - 00:06:31:01 Speaker 2 No, no. Down. Even as late as when my wife and I got married in 2005, we bought our first house in downtown Lehigh, and it was still only at that point about 30,000 people. So in the 70s, you're talking about five, six, 7000 people. Fort Myers, you know, when the 1980 census, Lee County was about 200,000 people. It had already been rapid because it had it was 100,070 5060 and 25 and 1950. 00:06:31:01 - 00:06:51:09 Speaker 2 So this place was already booming. But they they do they they tell me a lot of stories. I got to see some of it still. The the drive in theater in Fort Myers was still around when I was a kid, the original Edison Bridge that Edison had paid for. The lights, the drawbridge, they they replaced that. I was probably in elementary school, but I still remember waiting for the drawbridge to go up and down. 00:06:51:10 - 00:07:04:21 Speaker 2 A lot of the really neat and unique things about a small community. You know, we still have some of those, particularly knowing where they are, but it's definitely changed. I mean, we're pushing 900,000, closing in a million, probably before too long. 00:07:04:21 - 00:07:16:21 Speaker 1 Wow. So so very very very not small anymore. So it does it even still carry any of that. The the spirit, the ghost of, you know, those small town days at all. 00:07:16:22 - 00:07:35:19 Speaker 2 A little bit I mean, you I think you see it in the, the, the, the politics of the region. It's different the having become familiar intimately in some ways with, with the different areas of the state. You can see the differences in terms of what's prioritized. You know, for you, it's it's everybody knows a pretty conservative area in terms of how it votes. 00:07:35:21 - 00:07:53:11 Speaker 2 Its number one issue is usually going to be jobs in the economy. But almost consistently for my whole life, the environment has been number two. And where you might go to other areas of the state and it's it's important, but it might be the number three, 4 or 5 issue in the polling. But but southwest has always had environment is it's pretty consistent number two issue. 00:07:53:13 - 00:08:02:23 Speaker 1 Did your dad ever verbalize regret for not being able to finish law school later on, or. I mean, it was not going to blame you for it, but I mean the the not doing it part. 00:08:03:00 - 00:08:25:03 Speaker 2 I mean, it created a little bit of friction with his dad, you know, you know, both my grandfathers, again, they didn't get to graduate college. It was a real achievement for them that their kids would be the first ones to do that. And then the pinch thing go on. And so that was a little frustrating. But you know, he ended up my dad ended up in 89 taking an associate minister role at our congregation. 00:08:25:04 - 00:08:39:18 Speaker 2 And then full time two years later. And so now he's been over 30 years in the ministry. It's it's really his passion and his calling. He he loves it. It's it's I think for all of us. Right. There's, there's a hand of providence that, you don't see until you look in the rearview mirror. 00:08:39:21 - 00:08:47:12 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, you know, people say no such thing as coincidences and. Yeah. Yeah. What's the name of his church or parish? 00:08:47:12 - 00:09:12:06 Speaker 2 Or so we members of the Church of Christ, part of the Restoration Movement, you know, his his mom, her lineage in south Alabama goes back to the late 1800s. There, there preachers and and elders and leaders of congregations there. And so we we I'm still at in Fort Myers, Gulf Coast Church of Christ. They've now moved out to LaBelle, little town east of Fort Myers, where my brother and his family are. 00:09:12:10 - 00:09:14:08 Speaker 2 He's the minister out of their their congregation. 00:09:14:09 - 00:09:30:05 Speaker 1 Let's go. And I don't know if it's higher. I mean, it seemed like you, your family does a lot of genealogy work and and so I'm curious as to how that started, but but maybe for, for level setting, you can tell me if I go back in time, am I going higher in a tree or lower in the tree or how does that. 00:09:30:06 - 00:09:57:06 Speaker 2 Well, depends on how you want to build the tree, which is. So there's always that casual, you know, oh, what do you know about your family. And and I have to just think, all right. Do they really want to know? Because, you know, my my mom and dad got into it and again, for some context, right. But my mom and dad, they were 21 and 22 when I was born, which my grandparents, my my dad's dad was 45 my age now when when I was born, it had two pennies to rub together. 00:09:57:10 - 00:10:19:09 Speaker 2 But there was two things we always did. I could almost guarantee July 4th we would be back in Spartanburg for the Caldwell reunion and Thanksgiving. We would be in Madison, Florida with my with the other side, my mom's side. And in those travels back and forth, always by car, we would stop at cemeteries, we would stop at courthouses, you know, records, vaults. 00:10:19:10 - 00:10:39:00 Speaker 2 And I didn't know any different. I thought that was a normal thing that family did on vacation. Right. You know, me and my brother in the back of the the Chevy Cavalier station wagon playing with a He-Man set by my parents are out with a brush and some Clorox trying to take a Polaroid of a of a headstone in the random corner of Florida or Tennessee. 00:10:39:04 - 00:10:57:22 Speaker 1 How did that start? When? Now it seems much, much easier. And my wife does a lot of that for me, which is like she's the reason why with the sons of the American Revolution, that kind of thing. Otherwise I wouldn't. But it seems much, much easier now because of Ancestry.com. And I think there's the other one that the the other big one. 00:10:58:03 - 00:11:08:06 Speaker 1 It wasn't that that didn't exist. The internet didn't exist, you know, how did how did they do the actual logistical work of of finding. 00:11:08:09 - 00:11:33:02 Speaker 2 So, you know, I ended up doing my undergrad in history and probably not a surprise again, some context, just to give a little flavor of my family, we would have a very traditional home life growing up. We would eat dinner 530, 6:00 every night, and it was a weeknight. We would watch jeopardy at 730 without fail. And in my family we had you had rules you could not try to answer until Alex Trebek finished reading the clue. 00:11:33:04 - 00:11:54:03 Speaker 2 So even if you knew, you had to wait for the clue to be read just like a contestant. And if you answered not in the form of a question, you did not get any credit. So maybe that gives a little flavor to it was really hard work. This is all by paper. You would you would order these sets of, you know, long like A4 sized sheets, and they would have the trees and you would just handwrite your notes. 00:11:54:03 - 00:12:14:19 Speaker 2 And as you worked your way back, you would just try to figure out, okay, I, I can first you start by interviewing everybody who's alive and you ask them their story. And then this is true for anybody that wants to do genealogy, sit down with the oldest person that's still around and just put on a tape recorder and let them tell a story, and they will tell facts they don't even realize they're telling. 00:12:14:19 - 00:12:28:15 Speaker 2 I've done a lot of this for my wife's family, and that's what I did with her grandmother's. You don't ask questions, just ask them to tell family stories, and they'll inevitably tell you about all their brothers and their sisters and their aunts and uncles and where they're from, and give you context that you wouldn't remember to ask them. 00:12:28:18 - 00:12:44:21 Speaker 2 So that's what they did. And then you start trying to fill in those details. And that means back then you figure out as you can, okay, where would they have gotten married? All right. It was in, you know, Transylvania County. So, you know, that's only like an hour and a half drive from where we're going to be on vacation. 00:12:44:21 - 00:12:51:17 Speaker 2 Why don't we run up there to the to the courthouse and go down to the records room and see if you can find it in the vault? Wow. 00:12:51:19 - 00:12:55:19 Speaker 1 I mean, speaking of grandma's in stories, is there still a Caldwell family reunion? 00:12:55:19 - 00:13:22:11 Speaker 2 Every year there is. Generations of have passed. So now it's mostly just my my dad and my uncles. My granddad's still with us. So it's now in that generation. I mean, you still you're talking about four generations getting together. We did. We did one actually, I think we went we did go back last year's Spartanburg and saw my, my dad's cousins and extended family that still around, which is fun for me because again, I'm the oldest grandchild of two oldest children. 00:13:22:15 - 00:13:38:01 Speaker 2 So all these folks I knew, you know, my youngest brothers, ten years younger than me, my my cousins are all much younger. I've got my youngest cousin is still finishing up university, so they don't they don't know these folks at all. But, but at least it's fun for me because I remember him as a little kid. 00:13:38:01 - 00:13:59:10 Speaker 1 Yeah. That's pretty. Well, I'm gonna tease this by saying the word postmaster. And then I want you to tell me, because. And you supply me. And I thought it was, like, endlessly fascinating to look at, not just these human beings and where they were and how whether they served in the the military or public office, a lot of public office, a lot of postmasters. 00:13:59:10 - 00:14:15:12 Speaker 1 I want to get to that. But the one I want to talk the most about, and you can if you if there's somebody else, you're like, hey, this is you know, that's not the that's not the best I got, Brett. Then you say it, but I'm Samuel James Bradley Perry. That's a lot of name. But he held a bunch of significant offices. 00:14:15:12 - 00:14:41:08 Speaker 1 And the part that grabbed me was having someone who was a judge and a postmaster served prior to statehood in Florida, and then all the way up to and during which I assume it changed. That's what I want to hear about, which is like during the Confederacy, Soule and then after the war and still kind of running this thread over, over a long period of time. 00:14:41:09 - 00:14:42:10 Speaker 1 Tell me about him. 00:14:42:12 - 00:15:05:16 Speaker 2 Yeah. So the the oldest branch is, is the Martin side. They, they homestead outside of mission in 1826. But the their grandkids will marry folks from Madison County. And the Madison County folks come in in the mid 1830s. Samuel James Bradley Perry we'll just say Samuel Perry is one of those. And yeah, you mentioned earlier about being energetic and doing lots of things. 00:15:05:20 - 00:15:22:11 Speaker 2 I can only imagine I must be somehow channeling him because he did. He he was a he was a deputy surveyor. So if we're here in Tallahassee, if you go over to Cascades Park, there's a monument at the center point for the entire survey grid of the state. And his name is on that as one of the deputy surveyors. 00:15:22:14 - 00:15:42:10 Speaker 2 It's really cool. You can go over to state lands, to the office at DEP, and they have the originals in the vault. And I have had a chance to look at the original survey work he did. He did the the remnant sections along the Alabama Florida line, where they're all kind of funky shapes because of the angle. And by the way, put this in your mind. 00:15:42:11 - 00:15:58:10 Speaker 2 We're talking about 1830s. He's going from Madison hard enough all the way out to the Panhandle. He also did surveys north of Lake Okeechobee. So out on the Kissimmee Prairie. Wow. And the way you did it is you bid it was a contract bid and you would, you know, lowest bidder who, you know, and you put a team together. 00:15:58:10 - 00:16:21:10 Speaker 2 It was on you. You got paid by how many miles you got surveyed in the grid, and it was up to you to pay your team. So however you wanted to do it, whatever you wanted to tackle, those were those were tough times. I would encourage people that are interested in this to go to a to, to the, to the Laban's, to the website, and you can pull the, the digital copies of all these and just read the survey notes of the stuff these guys ran into. 00:16:21:16 - 00:16:42:14 Speaker 2 I mean, Indians, alligators, hogs. Like, there there's one note I found Guy wasn't my ancestor, but a guy was surveying where Bonita Beach Road is now going due east, and he he hits a point that I know is pretty swampy, and he just writes in the note to many alligators. We went around, they just they just skipped the line. 00:16:42:14 - 00:17:12:03 Speaker 2 But no. So he he he did that. He was secretary of the state Senate in late 1830s, early, I mean, pre-statehood or right at statehood. But in Madison County in particular, he was at various times, I think, tax collector, superintendent of schools. The really interesting story that a lot of Civil War buffs might know about him. He was one of the postmasters who continued serving after secession and continued serving after reconstruction and in the in the war period, particularly the last two years. 00:17:12:03 - 00:17:27:06 Speaker 2 It got to be very difficult. But I mean, these guys kept the mail up, even the spy between between all, all of the states, between the North and the South, mail was still moving back and forth. They didn't have stamps. I mean, by the end of the war, the Confederacy wasn't. I mean, they could barely print the money, much less stamps, right? 00:17:27:07 - 00:17:44:16 Speaker 2 So they actually made their own stamps. So there are, you know, stamp collectors who and again, Samuel Perry is not the only one in the country that did it, but there's a handful of these guys that kept their post office going by making their own stamps. And it's a super rare collectible. If you can find one of these handmade Civil War stamps. 00:17:44:17 - 00:17:45:03 Speaker 1 Do you have. 00:17:45:03 - 00:17:53:02 Speaker 2 Any of them? I do not have any of. I've seen pictures of them online with with research, but that that would be a cool get. Yeah. If anybody wants to buy me a gift now you know the one that really get. 00:17:53:06 - 00:18:16:16 Speaker 1 That's right. What was the I mean it's hard. It's like I, I know I'm like asking you to like dig into unless someone had a a journal or something. What the intent was, was it simply this is important enough. I mean, this is how we communicate with everybody outside the town that you're in. Did it look as far forward as someday we're going to stop shooting each other and you know, and we're going to have to figure out how to reconnect. 00:18:16:19 - 00:18:38:06 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, anytime you talk about the Civil War, obviously it can be fraught for some folks, I do I'll get in to deep enough conversation with with peers and folks about really understanding and appreciating the the African-American experience, because it is different than the rest of us. I just want to touch on that before we get more into the Civil War story, because, you know, my wife, she's got Mexican and Texan heritage. 00:18:38:11 - 00:19:07:10 Speaker 2 And I remember this is probably 2012. I had a Twitter debate with Mark Caputo about demographics as destiny in the political terms. And my thesis, and I think it's borne out, continue to bear out is every immigrant group by the third generation moves to the mean politically, meaning basically half your descendants will be on the left and half be on the right, and there's no strong affiliation that seems to be playing itself out with the with the Central American and Latin American immigrants. 00:19:07:15 - 00:19:29:12 Speaker 2 The one exception to that is African Americans. And and I don't think that's you have to recognize, like when you and I sit down at Thanksgiving dinner, we talk about these kind of stories. We've got these stories we know and can share. Our ancestors made up, made a proactive choice to come here and and build their future. For most African Americans, they they don't. 00:19:29:13 - 00:20:00:22 Speaker 2 They have no way to even tell a story before 1864. Yeah. And so, you know, what you do with that is, is is up to each person, but it is different than the rest of our experience. And so I just want to acknowledge that as we talk about the Civil War, to try to take at least some temperature off of it, because I know just listening to accounts, you know, I still had four great grandparents when I was born that I, that I knew I they've got a I didn't the one that was born in 1899 I don't remember I think he died when I was four, but my three great grandmother's, I sat and 00:20:00:22 - 00:20:20:18 Speaker 2 had conversations like this for most of and and of course they knew their parents and their their parents. Some of them were born and lived during the Civil War. I would get a glimpse into what their thoughts were. Not everybody. It really there obviously was motivation over slavery for the people for whom that was a financial factor. Right. 00:20:20:19 - 00:20:44:04 Speaker 2 But to your point about this, for for Samuel Perry, by and large, they felt caught up in something that they couldn't control through honor and obligation. Many of them ended up fighting or or serving in some way, shape or form. And I and I think I can only suppose because you see the dedication. But I I've got to believe he he understood there was a responsibility that he had to keep those communication lines going. 00:20:44:09 - 00:21:04:11 Speaker 2 I suspect most people did have a sense, particularly by the third year of the war, that it was going to eventually resolve in favor of reunion. But, you know, that's not going to be true for everybody. But, but and and again, I don't have a journal like you said. But but it is I, I think you can read that certainly in those actions. 00:21:04:13 - 00:21:34:18 Speaker 1 Well then if you don't mind, can we take maybe a step back 25, 30 years before that to your wife's ancestors? Because the line that exists now was arbitrary and done with like 1834, 1835, right after the Mexican-American War. And so how does how does her family does? Does she have some of those those stories, the heritage, the ancestry that runs on both sides of this, this new line that that was developed? 00:21:34:20 - 00:22:00:05 Speaker 2 Yeah. So her mom's side of the family is from the valley near Brownsville, right on on the Rio Grande, either side. I have researched as far back as I can, obviously, the first Texas census, 1850. There's some Republic of Texas records, and there are Spanish Texas records, but I have gotten decent enough. I can read Colonial Hand handwritten documents pretty well. 00:22:00:07 - 00:22:21:19 Speaker 2 You're going to take me to Spanish Colonial in, in in a different kind of Spanish even than today. You've really stretched me. But the short version is they they never immigrated. They they didn't move to America. America came to them. Right. And so that is a crazy, unique experience for them. My, my father in law now, he was was born in Texas. 00:22:21:21 - 00:22:40:12 Speaker 2 His mom was a was a Mexican immigrant. She was part of the program when you could much easier get a work visa and just go back and forth. And it is interesting. My wife has has kind of observed on occasion there is a difference, even in terms of how the two sides of her family relate. I mean, her her dad is extremely patriotic. 00:22:40:13 - 00:23:09:23 Speaker 2 I mean, to him, being a first generation American, it was an enormous opportunity. I mean, he grew up really poor, farm working his dad. They don't know what happened to him, but there were times he he had to dig through the trash at the work camp just to, to make, make a meal. So for him, the American opportunity is, is very visceral and and whereas for her mom's side of the family, it's, it's much more of a what we're here and we've always been here not a critical way, but just a real contrast. 00:23:09:23 - 00:23:11:10 Speaker 2 It's interesting to see. 00:23:11:12 - 00:23:12:07 Speaker 1 Let's take a minute. 00:23:12:07 - 00:23:42:03 Speaker 3 To talk about my friends at Sea and Shoreline. Since its inception in 2014, sea and shorelines unmatched experience with scientifically validated methods of aquatic restoration has proven successful across more than 150 environmental projects. 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We've we've I don't think the trailer is still there, but the neighborhood and and it was just it was the simple times like, like people have when they're just starting out pretty, pretty young. 00:25:16:06 - 00:25:40:15 Speaker 2 I can the first memory I can say legitimately is about three and a half. I got a tricycle for Christmas, and for some reason I was convinced there was a sticker on the front that I needed to get rid of. And so unobserved, I went and got the stool, climbed up on the stove, opened the cabinet above the stove, and got one of the steak knives out, which led to this really awesome scar that you can see here on my index finger. 00:25:40:17 - 00:25:48:06 Speaker 2 Still, you know, what is that? 42 years later, I definitely remember doing that. But. And a couple more after that. 00:25:48:07 - 00:26:04:00 Speaker 1 Yeah, it's I mean, it's funny you say it's like I, I, we, I spent the first couple of years in my life in, in Lakeland, and literally the only thing I remember about it is being in an orange tree and playing and then getting hit in the face with a rock. That's it. I mean, that's the whole. 00:26:04:03 - 00:26:04:23 Speaker 1 That's the whole thing. 00:26:05:01 - 00:26:11:09 Speaker 2 Yeah, well, they're traumatic memories. I guess we haven't psychoanalyze that. You're making me think now. 00:26:11:11 - 00:26:25:01 Speaker 1 Well, let's I mean, let's talk about you as a kid, though. It's like. What? What? When you got to the memories that weren't carving yourself up, what were the what were you like? What are the things that you did, whether it be by yourself or with your parents and eventually with your brother? 00:26:25:04 - 00:26:46:11 Speaker 2 Well, so being I mean, we weren't destitute, but we didn't have two nickels again. So, you know, my dad did well enough. We we bought our first house in 87. So I was six and we had rented a couple of different places. The villas local people know were Saint Carlos Park, but we bought this house over in Gregor Groves, built in 56. 00:26:46:11 - 00:27:06:03 Speaker 2 It was 30 years old, but, you know, terrazzo floors, jealousy windows, carport out outside laundry room. And Florida people know exactly what I'm describing. There was a wall unit in the living room so loud that you almost couldn't watch the TV, but that meant there was no air condition in the bedroom. So particularly as I got older and I just I wanted to keep my own schedule. 00:27:06:07 - 00:27:22:23 Speaker 2 I got used to sleeping with the windows open, which which again makes me sound like I'm about 30 years older than I am. But that was just the way we grew up. I mean, bicycles on bicycles till the lights come on. We we had, talked about orange trees. We had a honey bell tree in the backyard. 00:27:23:00 - 00:27:40:12 Speaker 2 I would climb up in the top of the tree when they all came in like a monkey, and just eat them by the handful until I made myself sick. Yeah, I idyllic, I mean, there's always hard stuff, but you don't know any better when you're a kid. And and so, the, the, the beauty is you tend to only remember the really, really fun stuff. 00:27:40:14 - 00:27:53:07 Speaker 1 Yeah. Do you recall maybe your relationship to the natural world back then? I'm curious. I don't know as much about, you know, rivers, lakes, things like that. You know, in Lee County. What was that like? 00:27:53:08 - 00:28:09:06 Speaker 2 Yeah. So I spent like, because my granddad's were so young and spent a lot of time with both of them. And my dad's working, right. He's when he's at Eckerd, he's working long shifts. So till I'm what, eight, nine years old and he changes changes careers. So my my dad's dad he was very handy. He loved woodwork. 00:28:09:06 - 00:28:28:09 Speaker 2 So I'd hang out with him fidgeting with very small things, building bookcases and clocks. And he was he was he's pretty impressive and equally impressive. My my mom's dad, he was big outdoorsman again. And he wanted to he had hoped to go back to his his mom's ranch and and live an outdoors lifestyle. So that's who I went fishing with. 00:28:28:10 - 00:28:44:06 Speaker 2 I remember we went quail hunting once in Lehi because again, it's 100mi² and there's only like the ten square miles of the center, have any houses in it. So you could be out on these, these blocks. It's like, almost like a perfect quail setup. Right? You got all these cut roads for in five acre blocks? That's right. 00:28:44:07 - 00:29:00:01 Speaker 2 My uncle and my granddad are the ones hunting me and my brother. So what am I, like, nine and he's five. We're we're in charge of sitting at the truck with the shells, and they're gone long enough that we now get interested. And we're going around and there's another bag of shells. And so we start comparing them like, what's the difference between this or this? 00:29:00:01 - 00:29:28:22 Speaker 2 They were both red. So my granddad comes back and says, give me sports shells. And we handed out some shells and he goes out, bird flushes and boom the bird disappears. We'd of course handed him a buckshot. Oh wow. Which, you know, could have been dangerous. Glad it turned out to just be a funny memory. Great educational lesson though, I we went back to the house and I learned very particularly the difference in gauges and loads and how to read every single part of the shell. 00:29:29:01 - 00:29:49:09 Speaker 1 Did I read that your mom was a teacher? Yeah. And and so was that a big part of, of growing up was the, the learning. I mean, you studied history and it feels like I did the same thing later on. You know, first, it usually is born of too much reading, sometimes forced by my, you know, by my mom when I was a kid. 00:29:49:09 - 00:29:52:22 Speaker 1 Is that like, what was your experience being the son of a teacher? 00:29:53:00 - 00:30:11:07 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, I, you know, she got into teaching, I think mostly out of practicality. She went back when I was in middle school and got her master's in library science, which was a big impression on me, probably influenced me going back later in my career, too. So she loves books. I mean, that's really her passion, obviously library science. 00:30:11:07 - 00:30:30:09 Speaker 2 And so we had five different bookcases in our house. I mean, we might not have had anything, but we had books galore. And so I had, you know, by the time I was in middle school, I already read through The Hobbit and all The Chronicles of Narnia, The Hardy Boys, Sherlock Holmes, just on and on and on. I devoured Michael Crichton. 00:30:30:12 - 00:30:55:18 Speaker 2 I have a collection of all the first editions of his his novels really, really enjoyed those. So it reading was just really just a normal, innate, regular thing, like that's what you were going to do. And again, you know, cable existed when I was a kid, but again, I, I sound like a guy 30 years old and I am I, I, I remember our first TV was a little 13 inch zenith black and white that I would watch. 00:30:55:20 - 00:31:09:12 Speaker 2 We would watch Mash reruns. My dad loved watching those. They'd love to tell a story. That one that, you know, I don't remember about 18 months old. I would get up and dance to the theme when the when the show would start, which if you know the song, it's kind of morbid. 00:31:09:16 - 00:31:10:07 Speaker 1 It is. Yeah. 00:31:10:07 - 00:31:35:13 Speaker 2 Yeah, but but but you know, I still was a big deal when Aunt Bobby, rest her soul passed away. She left us her color television, which 198687 was like a 1970 model, but it was a big upgrade. Man, this was like a 19 inch color TV with the click clack. Yeah, the short version of that is, well, you got bored pretty quick and there was lots of time to read because there was, you know, if it wasn't on, it wasn't on. 00:31:35:16 - 00:31:38:07 Speaker 2 And no, no scrolling and screening like we do today. 00:31:38:11 - 00:31:55:01 Speaker 1 If I, if I had done something in school, I got a a less than stellar grade, I'll put it like that. My mom would make me read for an hour to be able to go outside and play with my friends for an hour. And so yeah, by the by the end of that, I'd read a lot and she'd make me do reports on it. 00:31:55:01 - 00:31:57:02 Speaker 1 And she was a speed reader, which was dangerous, but. 00:31:57:06 - 00:32:11:19 Speaker 2 Oh wow. That is, that is, well, based on my school career, I would have been reading, I think, six times as much as you had, so that she would have had found she they never did find it, let's put it that way. I you know, for me, school was if I enjoyed it and I would get into it and do just fine. 00:32:11:19 - 00:32:14:09 Speaker 2 If I didn't like it, then I just had no time for it. 00:32:14:10 - 00:32:30:06 Speaker 1 Yeah. And that was one of my questions I was going to get to, which is and I always ask somebody if they're a good student and I and some people are just good students and like their, you know, my daughters or all my wife, you know, a terrible student. But I'm a really great student. If I care about, you know, the subject matter. 00:32:30:06 - 00:32:50:13 Speaker 1 And so it sounds like maybe you were you were pretty much the same. Was there? What was it that grabbed you? You know, maybe not high school years, because then it's it's easy because the, the classes, the history classes get more interesting. But was there something else, you know, leading up to that, was it the social studies kind of in quote or, or English or something like that. 00:32:50:14 - 00:33:10:10 Speaker 2 You know, school really it really was more of something I don't want to say obligation, but but more or less what what I enjoyed was I enjoyed the history class because I, I liked history, but I, you know, you'd get I'd be one of those you get the textbook and I've already read through to the sixth chapter by the second week, and now I'm already bored again for for high school. 00:33:10:12 - 00:33:26:12 Speaker 2 You were asking earlier about like, the, the natural world. That's where I really got into my own. Had a group of buddies. Six of us were still friends. We got a guy's trip in a couple of weeks, you know, 30 years on, right? One of them lucky enough they lived out by Shell Point, which is at the mouth of the clue. 00:33:26:14 - 00:33:57:14 Speaker 2 And I remember it wasn't me. One of them somehow got possession of a aluminum John boat. You know, 12, 14ft. Another buddy somehow got a five horsepower Honda and we went everywhere. I mean, absolutely everywhere for, you know, freshman, sophomore, juniors. I mean, that's where we we were out on the grass flat there at Saint Charles Harbor the night I saw a school of tailing redfish where the whole grass flat comes to life, and we're out fishing with spoons and you could literally just plop them on their back. 00:33:57:15 - 00:34:18:11 Speaker 2 They were so many. Wow. And and you you. It was just silly. You almost stopped. You just just stopped fishing and you just watched it. I mean, I, I remember startling a leopard ray that was twice the size of the John boat. Come up underneath and out. You talk about making an impression and caring about natural resources. Those those are, you know, did a lot of camping on some mangrove islands. 00:34:18:13 - 00:34:27:14 Speaker 2 Still, I think back how I did that with all the no seams and the gnats, but but at 18, you just you'd rather be there than at home I guess. I'm not sure. 00:34:27:16 - 00:34:45:02 Speaker 1 Don't care. Yeah. I mean, you just simply don't care. As much as we get older, we get too comfortable, I think. Yeah. When did you decide? At some point. Was it another means to an end obligation going to college at that point or so? You went to Edison, right? They call it something different now though. 00:34:45:07 - 00:34:46:19 Speaker 2 Yeah. Florida Southwestern, right? 00:34:46:20 - 00:34:51:05 Speaker 1 Yeah. Was that why you were there? Was like, hey, I'm supposed to do this, so you go. 00:34:51:05 - 00:35:07:17 Speaker 2 Do it. Yeah. Honestly, my I was blessed. My mom's dad put some money away for for each of us. We were able to put that into Florida Prepaid. When that program came out, I was maybe eighth or ninth grade. So we all had at least tuition paid for. I mean, it's real blessing, no question about it. But it was. 00:35:07:21 - 00:35:23:12 Speaker 2 I was obligated to go like, I really didn't have a passion for college other than, well, I guess it's what you're supposed to do. So that's I stayed and went to my local community college and then went to my local university, and I started in appraisal while I was still at Edison. A real estate appraisals, an apprenticeship career. 00:35:23:13 - 00:35:25:20 Speaker 1 How did that. How did that happen? Appraising. 00:35:25:23 - 00:35:45:10 Speaker 2 Total Providence I had my first job in high school was at toys R us. Working in stock room. Ended up graduating over time to building the bicycles and all the equipment. And so I ended up working for about six months for huffy, actually going around as a college job. I'm going around to Target and Kmart and other places building the bikes. 00:35:45:12 - 00:36:10:07 Speaker 2 But I mean, that's not a career. And and we had some guys that we went to church with that were appraisers, and they'd been kicking around and somehow mentioned my dad. They they needed somebody. And one thing led to another. And I started out like most people do, the get it appraisal, just you're typing them up, you're sitting at a desk taking all the stuff the, the actual certified appraiser does and, and typing up the report for them to read and which is which is the only way to learn it. 00:36:10:09 - 00:36:17:10 Speaker 2 I mean, you you learn it. I'm not going to knock getting real detailed real estate degree in understanding it. But but to viscerally understand how to do it. 00:36:17:11 - 00:36:17:18 Speaker 1 It's. 00:36:17:18 - 00:36:19:17 Speaker 2 It's doing it with your hands from the ground up. 00:36:19:19 - 00:36:31:08 Speaker 1 You did grad school at us and it was in actually, it was a path of study. I hadn't heard quite the same before. And forestry. And then something else. What, what? 00:36:31:14 - 00:36:49:06 Speaker 2 So it's really just happenstance again, after I got elected property appraiser, I was I've got my floor to forestry magazine where a member and there's this ad for a online master's course in geomatics. So the degree is technically forestry resources and conservation with a concentration in geomatics. 00:36:49:09 - 00:36:50:18 Speaker 1 Yeah, it's a geomatics. 00:36:50:18 - 00:37:24:12 Speaker 2 So geomatics is the, the the study and the practice of geographic information. So you use a GIS. I mean all the different careers. We both had you guys every day. So really understanding the the process of data collection, remote sensing, which for most people taking pictures. But, you know, you can do it with any kind of imagery detection leader, etc., how you do that, how you transform that into what what is three dimensional data into two dimensional interface that people can use, and then tying that to other information to make it useful as a, as a, as a GIS. 00:37:24:18 - 00:37:40:05 Speaker 2 And it was really fun, you know, for whatever it's 30 credits, only 15 of them had to be in the back side and the other 15 was up to me. So I took a couple survey courses, some so they were for thousands, but I got them to upgrade me to a to a 6000 and then several forestry courses. 00:37:40:05 - 00:38:02:06 Speaker 2 So long the system and restoration practices and things like that, just stuff I really enjoyed. It was it was a lot of fun. That's where we actually probably the best their survey class, that 4000 series class, they always come up to do a tour of the capital and they get get to meet a few things. And probably I mean, I, I don't want to say probably the best tour there ever get to get because we got to go. 00:38:02:07 - 00:38:09:20 Speaker 2 I took them on the House floor. We got to go back and be a few key people, but they got to go places as a class. They don't really wouldn't have been able to go right. 00:38:09:22 - 00:38:36:10 Speaker 1 Yeah. And so I, I guess that's a good point of, you know, getting to the, the, the politics side of it. And I guess there's a lot of public service, you know, in your genealogy, like I said, like I think I saw a postmaster seven times, maybe more, which is a huge job, maybe slipping back into that for a moment, talk about how important a postmaster was and the 19th century. 00:38:36:15 - 00:39:02:04 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, that's that's the entire community. I mean, you didn't exist as a place unless you got a post address. And of course, back then you didn't have home delivery. So you typically would have a general store that would double as the post office. They would host it and bid a contract and getting appointed. That was obviously a boon for the general store, because that means customers are coming in to get mail and hopefully buying coffee and tobacco and whatever else. 00:39:02:07 - 00:39:29:14 Speaker 2 Right. But but it really is the defining moment for a community. And as you're, you know, colonizing the West and the West for that time period starts in Alabama and Mississippi, you're, you're you're stretching out there and the real remote territory. And it it's a way, you know, before electronic communication, the the telegraph and, and the railroad that come after the Civil War, it's a way to to show that you've connected to the larger network of the country. 00:39:29:16 - 00:39:47:18 Speaker 1 All right. So then skipping forward into that service and I'm going to start with a failure. But I want to know one is like why you ran for the state Senate when you did. I think it was 2008. Right. And then I want you to talk about losing. And because you write back in it, 2000, by 2010, you're elected to the Florida House. 00:39:47:18 - 00:39:53:04 Speaker 1 So talk about the why and then the how and then the why kept doing it. 00:39:53:06 - 00:40:16:02 Speaker 2 Total serendipity again. Providence. I think really I was we were always political like I remember, but but not politically. Like we didn't go to events or rallies or hold up signs. But every time the presidential came around, my dad would get one of the US maps from triple A, and we would sit together and watch the returns with a box of crayons and color the the states in as it came in. 00:40:16:02 - 00:40:38:12 Speaker 2 So, you know, his undergrad was poly psi. So we, we, we, we were political what you'd be described as a super voter, but I didn't know anything about the infrastructure. And so. Oh three buddy I'd gotten to know was like, hey, you should come to the Republican Executive Committee meeting. What is that? And I show up and like most of them, are unfortunately pretty fractious, you know, two different factions vying for control. 00:40:38:13 - 00:40:57:06 Speaker 2 You know, the the lower the stakes, the higher the energy. I think it goes a couple years, the the next cycle after that. We had a wonderful man, Gary Lee. He had been a congressman in upstate New York and retired in Fort Myers. And he got involved, got elected chair, reshaped the local party. And he had a real passion for empowering younger folks. 00:40:57:06 - 00:41:16:07 Speaker 2 So myself names you'll recognize Ray Rodriguez, Dane Eagle, several others that you would know in local Southwest Florida politics. We are all getting engaged. I was the vice chair of the party. Others were treasurer, secretary, etc. but what that is is a vehicle to get to them. No political movers and shakers, the actual elected officials. And you're talking about it at that point. 00:41:16:07 - 00:41:37:20 Speaker 2 I'm 23, 24 years old. I don't know, you know, my head from the whole the ground. But but I'm eager. And so I got to work. And it ultimately led to me getting appointed in zero six. Trudy Williams had created the first map process, the Basin Management Action plans, and I got appointed to the Lake Okeechobee subcommittee, and I show up to this thing, and I had started advocating about the river. 00:41:37:20 - 00:41:59:12 Speaker 2 I showed interest in it. Gary Lee assigned me to do a river project for the party, actually, and put me around. I can see his vision. It was an opportunity to put me in front of crowds and get comfortable speaking about a topic. And so I would go to our local clubs and do education runs about here's the history of the river and how the drainage system worked and all, you know, Hamilton distant and the whole story. 00:41:59:14 - 00:42:22:09 Speaker 2 So I, I go to the to the be map really fascinating process. Loved working on that. Learned a lot about the intricate workings of the South Water Water Management district. And it's it's just again Providence Frank man a name people might recognize. He was a House member senator ran for governor on the Democratic ticket in 86. Ended up becoming the LG nominee when they lost to Bob Martinez. 00:42:22:10 - 00:42:39:17 Speaker 2 Right. Quick note, by the way, you're you're interview with Bob Martinez forever and a day. I was hoping he would write a memoir, and I saw him last year at a tax watch thing, and I told him I had heard your interview with him and, he said, you know, and I said, I, you going to write a bit more? 00:42:39:17 - 00:42:44:04 Speaker 2 And he said, I never wanted to. And after that he is writing it right now. 00:42:44:05 - 00:42:45:02 Speaker 1 That's so incredible. 00:42:45:03 - 00:42:53:01 Speaker 2 Yeah, I think I think I'm hopeful. I'm knock on wood. Bob's going to be 91 in December. Yeah. But but hopefully he brings it in for a landing because he's got a great story. 00:42:53:02 - 00:43:12:12 Speaker 1 It's something it's something special. It's it's a real American. It's a real Florida story and a real American story. And he is sharp, a sharp attack, as I've come across in talking to folks and what an what an interesting person. But yeah, that's a I'm so glad to hear that. 00:43:12:13 - 00:43:30:18 Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm I'm looking forward to it. So try to move the narrative along as fast as I can. So Frank had had he been recruited to run in oh two. And his is a great story. He had been a long time, and in 2000 or 2001 he, Frank, had been working on this issue for the. They've renamed it since. 00:43:30:18 - 00:43:57:05 Speaker 2 But the Association of Retarded Citizens, he had a real passion for their their issues. I forget the thing. Oh, I know what it was banning executions for people that are that are determined to be mentally incompetent. Right. And Jeb told Frank he would sign the bill, but he had to change his party finally. And so he did. And in two they recruited him, and he ran for the the state Senate against an up and comer named Dave Arenberg, lost by 3 or 4 points. 00:43:57:05 - 00:44:18:20 Speaker 2 And this is a crazy district. It went from Bonita Beach in a backwards el, through Lehigh, through Babcock Ranch, which back then only had 20 voters across Glades County into Palm Beach County and did on the Atlantic Ocean on Palm Beach Island. So it quite literally was like a microcosm of the state. It had every type of of territory, ecosystem and voter that you could have. 00:44:18:22 - 00:44:35:16 Speaker 2 But he lost that race. And so fast forward. Oh eight the party's looking to recruit to run against Dave. They want to go after that seed and Gary siblings in Orlando and Frank says no. At that point he was on the county commission. He said, I sleep in my own bed. I'm too old. But and I'll never forget and thank him for this. 00:44:35:16 - 00:44:59:20 Speaker 2 He said, you should talk to Matt Caldwell. I'm 27 years old. I've never run for anything. The best I've been able to do is run my mouth off about a few things that I'm passionate about. But I meet with the guys. And, you know, for context, Ken Pruitt's the outgoing president, Jeff Atwater coming in, and Herod is assigned, he's quarterbacking these two, you know, reach seats and he gets blind Ortiz to run against zipline in Orlando. 00:45:00:01 - 00:45:18:11 Speaker 2 And yeah, they put me into it. Talk talk to me talk to me about it. Ultimately decided yeah, let's give it a run. I mean, what do I have to lose now? Little, little note. Just fascination. Qualifying day was January was June 13th of 2008. I'm there paperwork being filed up up here. I've already signed it and mailed it off. 00:45:18:11 - 00:45:40:01 Speaker 2 It's going into the Division of elections. I'm upstairs at Health Park Hospital with my wife as she is giving birth to our daughter. That's her birthday. My sister in law comes upstairs and says, I'm pretty sure the guy you're running against is downstairs meeting with the kids and the children's hospital. His name's Dave, but, you know, that was an amazing, just an amazing learning experience. 00:45:40:02 - 00:45:58:15 Speaker 2 You know, losing that because we're going to talk about the other loss, which is a much deeper conversation that didn't I mean, it never it's never great to lose, but there was no big shock to it. The way the district was, was designed, particularly in the Obama wave year. A Republican wasn't going to win that seat. But I learned a ton. 00:45:58:18 - 00:46:19:05 Speaker 2 I mean, this is what a great opportunity to have a test run. I learned, really, how to public speak. My first speech. We're in more haven at the More Haven auditorium, and the Glades County people love Dave. Dave would send his staff to go help the ladies and the trailer parks with Social Security paperwork. So, I mean, this guy was gold and he was a great speaker. 00:46:19:07 - 00:46:31:03 Speaker 2 So he gets up first and gives his speech and you know why he should be reelected. And I get up and this, you know, the whole more Haven auditorium five 600 people and they listen I go, I'm Matt. 00:46:31:03 - 00:46:33:00 Speaker 4 Caldwell and I'm running for. 00:46:33:02 - 00:46:58:08 Speaker 2 And by the by I'm running for you. The I've lost the audience. They all start talking to each other. Doesn't matter what else I say. Now, my staffer is a name that people will recognize. Chris Hudson. Yeah. Chris Hudson, his dad, Matt Hudson, was in the process. Chris had just been staffing Dean cannon. He gets sent down to be my my party staffer to help me on this race, and he's just got his head in his hands up there at the top of the bleachers. 00:46:58:10 - 00:47:20:08 Speaker 2 And of course, Chris is currently the the one of the lead architects on Byron Donalds campaign, just to bring it full circle. But he takes we go back to Fort Myers and he and Matt sit me well, not send me down. They stand me up in front of a window and they sit across from me and for three hours just absolutely ruin me. 00:47:20:13 - 00:47:41:05 Speaker 2 Just questions, you know. What are you going to do about about Medicaid? Well, this is what no, I don't want to do and not even let me get the answer out until they just beat me into understanding how to quickly communicate an idea about, you know, something that's relevant to the politics that your you're vying for. And so we've got this great picture. 00:47:41:07 - 00:48:00:20 Speaker 2 Probably month later we're in Lehigh. Dave comes and he gets up. Just saying he gets he's the incumbent. So he does the speech first and then I give up to give my speech. And Chris took this picture of Dave with his head cocked in amazement at the candidate that's now standing on the stage giving the speech. Like, where did this guy come from? 00:48:00:21 - 00:48:23:13 Speaker 2 Right? I still treasured that one. But look what amazing experience I, I, I think of another quote on that race. I met Max to panic. Mac was an aide to Bob on his gubernatorial campaign, and he told me once, and I'm paraphrasing, that the secret to their success in 86 was they didn't know any better. And so it is really true. 00:48:23:14 - 00:48:44:00 Speaker 2 If you don't know any better, you know, if the hardest thing you've ever done is the hardest thing you've ever done. Yeah. Then, you know, we lose that. Not a shocker. Fast forward a year and it's clear now Dave's going to leave to run for attorney general. And you know, I'm the natural, you know, heir to to run for it again. 00:48:44:00 - 00:49:02:19 Speaker 2 But, you know, it's still a tough district. It hasn't been the lines have been at all. And it's still probably a five 3 to 5 point favorite. Depends on performance, of course. Literally no 2010 would be the wave year in the other direction. But it's all great. I defer because I look at it now. I've got a year old baby. 00:49:02:21 - 00:49:19:08 Speaker 2 I know better what it means to campaign in this seat from side to side. And I realized, you know, where my base. I didn't have a long time base. I didn't have, you know, all of my friends were still 25. They don't have any money to give. I don't have a deep, deep donor base. You got to raise some money to run a Senate race. 00:49:19:11 - 00:49:39:05 Speaker 2 So I, I pass on it and defer to a woman that I just kind of know named Lizabeth goes on to be excellent. A colleague of mine, we really a lot of success I had in the in the in the house. I give her the credit because I, I couldn't have done it without a partner in the Senate, but I volunteered to be Marco's Lee County chair. 00:49:39:07 - 00:49:57:17 Speaker 2 You know, I'm not running for anything, but I'm I'm passionate. You know, this is the conservative guy, and I'm kind of shortening the Charlie Crist Marco, the people that know know. And and so I'm his chair and I'm helping him in this insurgent campaign, putting together meet and greets and talks and again, not donor meetings because I don't know what he donors. 00:49:57:18 - 00:50:17:07 Speaker 2 Right. God, God bless Marco for coming over. And honestly so many stories. I, I remember once he came in that campaign to the into the airport he flew in. This was late in the contest and the press wanted to get him in, in something. And no matter what the question was, no matter what, it was the exact same answer. 00:50:17:07 - 00:50:41:01 Speaker 2 He gave the exact same answer to every single question, because he was only going to give them the one soundbite no matter what they asked him. He was in a fight and he needed to get his point across. You know, believe in freedom and economic opportunity and that kind of thing. Just the discipline. The other thing I used to watch him do, every time he would give speeches, he would pull a business card out of his coat pocket, and he would just write three words down on the back of the business card. 00:50:41:03 - 00:50:57:10 Speaker 2 There was no speech. There was no eight and a half by 11 prepared thing. He would just get up. And I'm like, well, I got to learn. I mean, if I'm going to do this, I got to learn how to do that. So then running, you know, running in ten again total Providence. Nick Thompson was my my house rep. 00:50:57:11 - 00:51:17:10 Speaker 2 He'd only been there for years. New judicial seat opens up. He bows out to run for that. I've got a six month campaign, seven month campaign window and Gary Lee calls me over Christmas. We're up in Tennessee looking at. We were in the van with my grandfather going to look at the old Jenkins homestead near Townsend, Tennessee, Jenkins Cave in the spring. 00:51:17:13 - 00:51:38:01 Speaker 2 And here Gary Lee calls me and says, you got to run for for state House. And we do that amazing experience. Totally outspent. We raised like 20 grand. I had an opponent that raised like almost 200 grand, but I just did the shoe leather I knocked myself. I knocked on about 4500 doors and I just figured, I get the list. 00:51:38:01 - 00:51:55:15 Speaker 2 Everybody that votes doesn't matter what you do in advertising. If I literally go talk to every super voter, they're going to decide the outcome. And when I say where they're out, we've got a picture of my shoes. The soul is completely worn through. I've got the straw hat that I would wear where the brim comes apart from from the top by the end of the summer. 00:51:55:18 - 00:52:11:10 Speaker 2 And, and nobody thought we'd were in that race. Or, you know, we raised 20 grand until the last week before the primary when Tallahassee pulled the race. And then we went to our Po box like a week out, and there was 80 grand that had mailed in. 00:52:11:12 - 00:52:15:17 Speaker 4 All the lobbyists that wanted to get in. They were with me before, before it happened. 00:52:15:19 - 00:52:41:11 Speaker 3 Let's take a minute to talk about my friends at Resource Environmental Solutions. Our state presents unique challenges with its diverse ecosystems, landscapes, and the many demands on its natural resources. That's why Rez uses an innovative approach and creative solutions to help municipalities, agencies and local water resource groups navigate the ever changing landscape of environmental regulations in Florida and throughout the country. 00:52:41:13 - 00:53:10:00 Speaker 3 Rez actively restores habitats, hydrological regimes, and ecosystem functions across Florida, from the Panhandle to the heartland to the Florida Keys, and everywhere in between. They focus on restoring floodplains and wetlands and improving water quality, which benefits a wide array of species that call Florida home. With an unwavering commitment to Florida's unique ecological communities, Rez upholds long term stewardship practices guaranteeing sustainable outcomes that endure. 00:53:10:02 - 00:53:23:01 Speaker 3 Discover more about their work and commitment to Florida's communities and the environmental challenges they face by visiting w w w dot dot U.S.. All right. Now back to the conversation. 00:53:23:04 - 00:53:44:10 Speaker 1 So let's get into I want to move it along to you. Bring your collection of bow ties to Tallahassee at that point. And that's the thing I remember the most about you. I mean, you were when we met and I was working in the house at the time as a staffer. And you were young, but you were also very, very motivated when you got there. 00:53:44:11 - 00:54:00:22 Speaker 1 It was it was obvious that you that you weren't once in a while. And there are a lot of good members. I think people underestimate folks, but some people are there to to be there and and some are there to do something. You were there to do something. What was what was the thing that was motivating you at the time? 00:54:01:00 - 00:54:19:07 Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, I had a huge passion for the natural resources. I mean, the hatching, the Everglades, this this was my thing. And it's it's the thing that I, I worked on diligently and, and I'm sure we'll touch into really some inflection points in 2018 and after. But, you know, I had come to the conclusion just broad strokes. 00:54:19:09 - 00:54:42:04 Speaker 2 Everglades restoration is supposedly a partnership with the federal government, set aside the fact they're broke. They're also just terrible at fulfilling their their obligations. And so I had come to the conclusion, after 20 years of wasted effort and stalled projects, we were just gonna have to do it ourselves. And that was really the pitch. And just against Rick Scott as governor had basically come to the same conclusion, we're not going to waste time anymore. 00:54:42:04 - 00:55:03:05 Speaker 2 And so I was just in the right place at right time. I, I got to be vice chair my freshman term under Christopher Lee, Steve Christopher and, and the Natural Resources subcommittee chaired that my sophomore term and then chaired state affairs for four years, the full committee and every major piece of of natural resources and Everglades restoration legislation. 00:55:03:05 - 00:55:20:06 Speaker 2 I got to be eyeball deep in working with the governor and the district and and really stuff I'm extraordinarily proud of because it forced the state and the district to start moving the ball down the road and forget the feds, because we were never going to get anything done as long as we waited for them. 00:55:20:07 - 00:55:44:11 Speaker 1 From, for from a more basic standpoint, you talked about, you know, being a kid in the John boat, the grass meadows, the wildlife. I mean, that's the business end, you know, of a lot of these places. Was that the thing that you're thinking about? I mean, everyone thinks that the Everglades is a big, giant, nebulous thing, that it just takes up, you know, loads and loads of money and who knows what. 00:55:44:12 - 00:55:47:12 Speaker 1 You know the why, but you're part of the why. 00:55:47:14 - 00:56:14:23 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, all of us. I mean, there's somewhere around 8 million people that live in the Everglades. And everybody, whether you enjoy offshore fishing along the southern Gulf and Atlantic coast or you you love inshore fishing, or if you're into natural resources, whatever it is, hunting or birdwatching or hiking, I mean, just all of it. Everything about South Florida begins and ends with with the Everglades. 00:56:15:01 - 00:56:33:11 Speaker 2 And, you know, one of the things I've made a habit of when I was the chair of State affairs, one of the perks is you can call the district and say, hey, we're going to use your helicopter. But I made this offer to news reporters, the news press, the Herald, the times, the post. Some of them took me up on it, and I would put them up in the helicopter and take them on a tour. 00:56:33:16 - 00:56:47:19 Speaker 2 And, I mean, I really knew it. I mean, we would always have a district guide with us, but they they kind of figured out after the first one, like, they're just going to let me do this because I know these projects and I know we're where we are when we're up in the in the in the chopper. None of these reporters had ever seen the scale. 00:56:47:21 - 00:57:05:03 Speaker 2 I mean, I had reporters that were writing op eds about what we should do, who had never physically laid eyes on Lake Okeechobee. They had no appreciation for what the second largest freshwater body in the United States looks like. And it's just like, well, you just do this and do that and it'll fix itself like you have. No, I, you have no appreciation. 00:57:05:05 - 00:57:19:20 Speaker 2 And so I would take them up. There was more than one that I put to sleep because it's a long day. Yeah. I mean from, from the Kissimmee Valley all the way to the, to the sawgrass and east to west. That's right. They there was more than one that fell asleep in the back because they just couldn't keep up with it. 00:57:19:20 - 00:57:46:14 Speaker 2 That that was really where the, you know, the rubber hits the road with, with the, the, the people and, and the resource on the ground. But but with a project, you know, and and South water water management is inarguably the the the largest human engineering project in the world in the history of humanity. And and so when you start to really grapple with all those moving pieces and the decisions that have to be made. 00:57:46:16 - 00:57:57:10 Speaker 2 I mean, it definitely left me the impression you can't, you can't mail it in, like, you've got to really commit to this because it's going to take a lot of, of effort to, to move the pieces that need to be moved to get the job done. 00:57:57:11 - 00:58:20:06 Speaker 1 And some and some do, but most, most don't. I and I guess maybe that was the thing is in somebody and I'd been in the governor's office policy and budget twice, you know, the Senate and the House. And I've seen the phoning it in part. And when you talk about not, you know, that entire system and I'm, as you were saying, like from the from the Kissimmee Valley all the way down to the end. 00:58:20:07 - 00:58:36:14 Speaker 1 It is complicated. It's massive, you know, and there's no simple parts of it. So you have to apply yourself to it or you just go along for the ride. And it sounds like you were one of the like, I need, I want to understand this thing that we're doing. 00:58:36:15 - 00:58:56:13 Speaker 2 It was all consuming. Yeah, I will tell you it and kind of relates to later on story. But my first year and you mentioned you could tell I was really into and I was we, I really wanted to get stuff done. But I came back from that first session and my wife and I took the weekend and we had a real come to Jesus in terms of our relationship. 00:58:56:14 - 00:59:13:06 Speaker 2 And, you know, you see, folks, unfortunately, they get here and, and and there, you know, they ended up getting divorced and and I think, you know, it just it this process will put stresses. And if you're not intentional, you know, like the old the Billy Joel song, tell her about it. You've got to be intentional about your relationship. 00:59:13:06 - 00:59:35:20 Speaker 2 And that's what really we discovered. It was good for us. It it made our marriage has inarguably been stronger since that weekend conversation because, you know, the first five years, it's just really easy. Your home every night, you see each other, you're having a relationship. Yeah. But once you're gone, once one of the partners is gone. As much as I was learning to be intentional in our relationship was was a big deal. 00:59:35:22 - 00:59:59:22 Speaker 2 But that that's a reflection of just I was really, really into it. So I had to find some balance. But I but I wanted to really I wanted to solve it. I, you know, I remember when we get to the, to the crisis quote period in, in 1718 and we were in the real flood years. I'm on a phone call with, with the governor, Rick Scott, and the secretary at that point before Noah, but after Herschel. 01:00:00:00 - 01:00:22:05 Speaker 2 John, I think John was on that call. Anyway, I I've got constituents at home who I mean, good old boys legitimately threatening to blow up the the levy controls on the the structures there on US 41 because the park is refusing to let the water through for the sparrow nesting. But I mean, we're just absolutely drowning in the valley. 01:00:22:07 - 01:00:27:15 Speaker 2 I mean, this is this was this was a lot. There was, there was, there was there was a lot that happened in a short period of time. 01:00:27:17 - 01:00:54:02 Speaker 1 Me and let's, let's go ahead and push forward then to and I hate glossing over so much time in the legislature is like, but but I do want to get to that, that that motivational part and the intentional part, because at some point you decide and I think I understand some of the philosophical underpinnings, which is it would probably be something a lot of people share, which is there are enough scapegoating, you know, type scenarios to go around. 01:00:54:03 - 01:01:23:09 Speaker 1 We don't need to do that with as large and complicated system as, you know, as is the kind of Everglades Lake Kissimmee system is just about going in and doing things and working with folks to solve problems. At some point you decide that in probably I you know, it sounds like in close consult with your wife to run for statewide office for ag Commission being the ag commissioner. 01:01:23:10 - 01:01:45:20 Speaker 1 Talk about that decision making. And, you know, and, you know, obviously it's like anyone who doesn't know. And I looked it up. It was a tight year for statewide races. I don't think I've ever seen a tighter end result than yours. And I think I got this correct, which is .08 8/100 of 1%. 01:01:45:23 - 01:01:48:14 Speaker 2 Yeah, 6000 votes out of 8 million. 01:01:48:16 - 01:01:58:23 Speaker 1 Insane. It's in insanely close. But but I do want you to talk about the the why? Because I think that's important in terms of moving you forward after that. 01:01:59:00 - 01:01:59:07 Speaker 4 Well. 01:01:59:07 - 01:02:19:10 Speaker 2 The why really is simple. It's it's as you you talked about it. You you you hear it all the time. Did you run for office to, to do something or to be somebody. And the why was to do something. And again, providential serendipity in any other version of history. Steve Crystal fully runs for AG commissioner. He was again ahead of me. 01:02:19:11 - 01:02:41:10 Speaker 2 He was my chair and he ended up moving up. And it's just a quirk of fate. Chris loses his election, so he's not going to be speaker in his class, and Steve gets selected for that well or term. He's running House majority. He's on the road 45 weeks a year senior. He's the speaker. He's on the road 45 weeks a year. 01:02:41:11 - 01:02:55:19 Speaker 2 He's he's just he's not doing a statewide campaign. And I mean, I think if you had asked everybody to make the betting odds back in 2011, 2012, they would have said he was going to be it. And he bows out, tells me I'm not going to do it. I'm going to go home and spend time with my daughters. 01:02:55:21 - 01:03:13:08 Speaker 2 And what that creates, I think, arguably, is the first time in the history of the state that that seat has an open contest, because honestly, most of the time it's pretty well in the bag. You know who the nominee is going to be. Yeah, the the big ag movers coalesce around a single candidate. Well, that didn't happen this time. 01:03:13:08 - 01:03:38:18 Speaker 2 And so we had a four way primary. And you know, I treated it just like that 2010 House campaign. I could knock on doors, but I could get on the road. And we were we went on the road six days a week for 16 months, did a I think we figured out 113,000 miles. You know, I would be home whatever time I needed to Saturday night so I could go to church and have lunch on Sunday and then hit the road again the next afternoon or night. 01:03:38:20 - 01:04:00:12 Speaker 2 And we my goal was to be in a different spot, speaking to a different group, boarding noon and night, and to put it on social media because we weren't gonna we had a folks don't remember Baxter Troutman. He was self-funding at least 5 million. I think he ended up spending seven or more. Denise Grimsley who it's still still a friend, but she's, you know, coming out of the state Senate. 01:04:00:12 - 01:04:23:14 Speaker 2 She's, you know, if you understand politics, you can raise some some coin. Yeah. And so this was this was a tough race, but my I figured the, the option I had was to just wear them out, and and we did. And we wore myself self out. I'm just going to be honest I put you you could probably hear it I, I put everything I had I mean there was literally nothing left on the field. 01:04:23:16 - 01:04:45:19 Speaker 2 And you know, the challenge was coming out of a primary like that. Now you only got 70 days, really 60 days till mail ballots drop or early voting starts. Actually, that's tough to turn around. And we were you know, I look at all the different things. Ours was the only one that was a heads up race. Everybody else had had a third candidate that that would have changed the, the, the the margins. 01:04:45:21 - 01:05:04:12 Speaker 2 You know, people ask me all the time about Broward County what I can say for sure, when we litigated, they were the only county of 67 that couldn't demonstrate a secure chain of custody for all their ballots. They're the only ones that couldn't provide secure room of all the disqualified late arriving ballots. Do with that what you will. 01:05:04:18 - 01:05:22:23 Speaker 2 Our conclusion was, I. I couldn't do anything with that. Right. The, the cabinet sits down two weeks after the election to certify the results. And, we didn't feel like we had anything we could, could take to them at that point that they could act on. And and once they certify, you know, a court go to ask a court to overturn the outcome of state. 01:05:23:02 - 01:05:52:04 Speaker 2 So, you know, I, I know your natural question then is, okay, how do you deal with that? Yeah. You know, there's two there's a lot of things we could probably make the whole podcast just about my multi-year grieving process. And I'm, I'm still really hesitant to talk about it as grieving, because growing up as a son of a minister, granddad's elder, both of them bankers, I mean, from the time I was born, I know people have real, real trauma in their lives. 01:05:52:05 - 01:06:15:00 Speaker 2 I mean, stuff that really happens. I, I've been I've been aware of it and and being able to see it and appreciate it from a very young age. So I'm always loathe to describe, you know, a disappointing outcome in a political contest, but I can only describe it for what it was like for me and for me. It was deeply, again, not traumatic, but it was deeply impactful. 01:06:15:00 - 01:06:16:18 Speaker 2 I was all the stages of grief. 01:06:16:21 - 01:06:24:23 Speaker 1 Is is the difference that it it's more you didn't lose. You felt like somebody took something from you. 01:06:25:01 - 01:06:26:13 Speaker 4 No, I mean, there's those. 01:06:26:13 - 01:06:44:03 Speaker 2 Things, you know, when you go through the stages of grief, there's the anger. Anger at yourself, anger at others. I, I've never like I, I've never been angry at Nikki. You know, it's quirks of history. Her her big. One of her biggest clients she ever got was because of a bill I worked on with Katie Edwards and Matt Gaetz. 01:06:44:05 - 01:07:03:22 Speaker 2 We we co-sponsored the Charlotte's Web bill that expanded access to, to CBD for, for seizure patients. And it was out of that bill that Nikki got a, a client that was a nursery client really turned out very well for her. And, you know, there's a scenario, there's a history where she doesn't run for statewide office if she doesn't have that, that financial platform. 01:07:03:23 - 01:07:08:21 Speaker 1 So you put. I mean, are you saying that that you put a lot more of that on yourself then. 01:07:08:22 - 01:07:09:10 Speaker 4 Yeah. 01:07:09:12 - 01:07:25:12 Speaker 2 You know, the calls I'd get calls from the people when you when you three places a day, six days a week, you make a lot of friends and you know you're into it. You get a call from a, a guy and a guy or gal in the ag industry and they're they're just they've got a problem and and it's not getting solved. 01:07:25:14 - 01:07:44:15 Speaker 2 And it's just it's heartbreaking. And it would stir all of it up again and to the point that for a while I didn't do social media at all. I just you couldn't I couldn't I, I really kind of removed myself for the better part of a year just to, just to be able to, to kind of recenter the two, two people I think about. 01:07:44:16 - 01:08:04:14 Speaker 2 I've thought about a lot. And those are Richard Nixon and John Quincy Adams. And of course, in Nixon's case, you know, he loses that 60 election, credible allegations of fraud. I mean, everybody knows LBJ stole the Senate seat like that. Nobody disputes that. What happened in 60. But, you know, he decided to not be a drama queen about it. 01:08:04:18 - 01:08:20:07 Speaker 2 And I thought that was always to his credit. And and that was part of what I decided to do as well. You know, we we did what we did and then we wrapped it up. And I haven't, you know, I didn't go around and make a martyr out of myself over, over the ensuing years, you know. And he got right back on the horse. 01:08:20:07 - 01:08:36:16 Speaker 2 Now, he lost in 62 his bid for for governor of California and I. And I don't want to say that running for property appraiser was just I had to get back on some horse. This really was an opportunity my my property appraiser Ken Wilkinson, father save our homes. He had been there 40 years like he was going to retire. 01:08:36:18 - 01:09:01:19 Speaker 2 But he came to me and said, hey, you're a professional property appraiser. Yeah. You know, you know the law. You know the business. Yeah. Come on. And by the way, county wide office and Lee County, because we're so big, is bigger than running for governor of four states. Yeah. So it's no small, small potatoes. But that's where the, John Quincy Adams comes to mind, because there's a lot of people wouldn't be able to step down. 01:09:01:21 - 01:09:21:17 Speaker 2 John Quincy folks remember he, he won the presidency in that contested outcome with Andrew Jackson where the House of Representatives voted him in. And then Jackson does campaign on that for four straight years and trouncing them after that. But John Quincy doesn't disappear. He runs for the U.S. House and actually serves, I want to say like 20 years. 01:09:21:18 - 01:09:37:03 Speaker 2 Wow. In the US Congress pursuing his passion, which is abolition, he wants to see an end to slavery, representing a district out of Massachusetts. I think Massachusetts, you know that. Just think about that. Think about a president today. Yeah. Leaving office and then running for so. 01:09:37:07 - 01:09:38:23 Speaker 1 Inconceivable, inconceivable. 01:09:38:23 - 01:09:59:01 Speaker 2 But that, you know, there there's no no short number of people, I think would say, hey, I ran for statewide office like, I'm that's beneath me to run for a local office, but, I don't think so. I mean, this it's an opportunity to continue serving. Really been good. I mean, there was a part of it. It's like, hey, we need to get back on the horse, and I need to make sure. 01:09:59:05 - 01:10:02:01 Speaker 2 How did I lose my mojo? That certainly helped. 01:10:02:01 - 01:10:20:05 Speaker 1 But is there something in there where. Because it's because I see it so much in your family. This kind of need to to participate, to be a part of the, the public sphere in terms of, of service, is there something of that there or or do you just like it? 01:10:20:06 - 01:10:20:23 Speaker 4 Well, I do. 01:10:21:02 - 01:10:46:03 Speaker 2 Enjoy it and it's always more enjoyable. I've got a fantastic team, for example, but there's a ton of those ancestors that were political, as we talked about, but actually, like my granddad's were really that into it. My, when I first said I was going to run for the Senate, my dad was like, do you sure you want to you want to get into all that and and what that can mean, really, it's just the opportunity I it's a mystery. 01:10:46:06 - 01:11:14:05 Speaker 2 You know, there's times I've, I've, I've asked God, you know. Did you really need me to go on the road like, was I. So was my ego getting so big that I, I needed to go do 16 months, six days a week and and get told, know that I was that the lesson that I was supposed to get out of this because I, I, I do I feel like every single one of I mean, I, I didn't pursue the Senate seat, the, the House seat pursued me the the commission commissioner race pursued me. 01:11:14:05 - 01:11:22:12 Speaker 2 This property appraiser opportunity pursued me. And so, you know, my role as State Parks Foundation president it it pursued me that opportunity. 01:11:22:14 - 01:11:45:20 Speaker 1 So was it was it an opportunity though to I, I, I, I, I was a staffer in the Senate doing a redistricting. This is the 2000 and 2002 territory. And what I realized as part of the process is I didn't understand Florida at all. I didn't know really. No Florida, I had family, I grew up in Hillsborough County, and I had family in Broward, in Jacksonville and all these places. 01:11:45:21 - 01:11:53:12 Speaker 1 I didn't really know Florida. Was there something like spending all that time on the road that that made you appreciate Florida more, do you think? 01:11:53:15 - 01:12:18:06 Speaker 2 Oh, absolutely. I, I, I will never regret that. I mean, if anybody gets the chance and and if you do it, do it like that to to get into every nook and cranny. Like I remember eating barbecue with Estes Whitfield at Mossy Head right off the interstate and or going to the rodeo and bonfire with with Brad Drake, you know, get the the the Farm Bureau dinners. 01:12:18:08 - 01:12:39:12 Speaker 2 Listen, running for AG commissioner, it is steak and potatoes and banana pudding five nights a week. It is it is a great road food. I had my my body guy Lance and again we had no money. So I, we, I would Priceline whatever the cheapest room was whatever it was. No no room selection. So king bed double bed, don't know what it is. 01:12:39:14 - 01:12:57:19 Speaker 2 So as soon as I hit hit send then I would call the hotel and be like, I just reserved. Do you have two beds in that room? And, you know, I think we only twice had to put a pillow down the middle of the bed. Nice at all those nights. Most of the time the trick pulled off that that was an amazing experience. 01:12:57:21 - 01:13:21:09 Speaker 2 And so a lot of relationships I, I, you know, here in property praise the world the the statewide organization split back in 1989 over like usual things personalities and some issues. And they had tried 3 or 4 times to reemerge and just couldn't get it over the hump. And when I got there in 20, I joined both. And their group of us were in both and were like, this is silly. 01:13:21:09 - 01:13:40:03 Speaker 2 It's it's time to put these back together. And part of what helped is some of the a lot of the guys that were there in 89 had left. So they the hard feelings weren't even around anymore. But it certainly didn't hurt that I had gone on the road and met all these people, a lot of them in a personal way. 01:13:40:03 - 01:14:01:15 Speaker 2 So as I'm, you know, working the phones, trying to get a vote count, just like working on the floor, man, it was it was a we we got we won the merger vote last September, merged the groups back together. But you know, it was it was like old times. I'm tallying my spreadsheet and I've got the, the list of people that told me yes and told me no and didn't vote the way that, you know, it's a secret ballot. 01:14:01:15 - 01:14:17:12 Speaker 2 But I can do the math. And, you know, you just you just, but it's it's, it's it's good. But those relationships and and being able to talk to a property praise in every single one of the counties and relate to them and develop a relationship based on the things I know about that area, that certainly doesn't hurt. 01:14:17:17 - 01:14:38:01 Speaker 1 So carry that forward. The the road time running for a commissioner dealing with two, you know, statewide professional organizations into into now this this I guess new ish endeavor. I mean, you're the president of the Florida State Parks Foundation, 175 parks, right? 01:14:38:02 - 01:14:39:11 Speaker 2 Some 176. 01:14:39:14 - 01:14:40:04 Speaker 1 Well. 01:14:40:06 - 01:14:41:20 Speaker 2 We got the new one a few few months ago. 01:14:41:21 - 01:14:44:11 Speaker 1 There you go. Exciting. Tell me to update their website. 01:14:44:11 - 01:14:49:06 Speaker 2 Then I will tell you that I was with I was with Chuck Hatcher, the director, this morning. 01:14:49:07 - 01:15:10:02 Speaker 1 But I mean, but the point is you're walking into something that's important to a lot of people. It's a it's a crown jewel for, for Florida amongst other states. Talk about maybe how what you've done before helps you be or or envision success at the Foundation. 01:15:10:04 - 01:15:29:22 Speaker 2 It's so much fun, right? It's first of all, it's all white hat, right? We've got a we've got a bipartisan board, everybody. We've got folks from every region, every ethnicity. You know, obviously, we've spent a lot of time talking about my Republican political background. But like our our Ed is a Democratic background. She's she's fantastic. We get along. 01:15:29:23 - 01:15:55:10 Speaker 2 We we love trading old war stories, by the way. But but just I, I, I give her a lot of credit. Julia Woodward she is tops I mean she what made what made me agree first when I first kind of got to know the, the group and said, yeah, I'll join. And then agreeing to get on to the board, the, the executive board and, and going for president was was actually her leadership because we've all been part of nonprofits. 01:15:55:10 - 01:16:19:13 Speaker 2 And, you know, it's a volunteer role for me. I'm not managing this, you know, every day of the week. But when I see that we've got a, a CEO that's running the ship and running it really, really well, I mean, we've been able to great things. What we did with with the recreation of the ford at Fort Mose outside of Saint Augustine, I mean, that was multiple millions of dollars of grant fundraising, coordination with with regional partners and the Park Service. 01:16:19:15 - 01:16:39:22 Speaker 2 We're working right now, Pennekamp State Park, down in the keys. They're building a new great visitor center. We're working on funding the interpretation facilities inside. Same thing. Topsail out in the Panhandle. Just I, I think October we should have the opening. Knock on wood. Everything will be ready and we'll we'll do that. Cut the bow. But it's so many different. 01:16:39:23 - 01:16:59:08 Speaker 2 I mean we like today I, I just got back got in from Silver Springs. We did bikes 25 e-bikes that we were able to provide through a grant. And the Rangers absolutely love them because, well, I mean, there's a lot of areas of the park. They're kind of tough to get to in a traditional truck or or UTV and an e-bike. 01:16:59:12 - 01:17:18:18 Speaker 2 They can they it's powerful enough. You can actually pull a little I mean and emergency response pretty rapid depending on, on what's happened. So they they're really eating it up. And it's part of our, you know, we've got the greener initiative that's funded out of the state parks license plate. Hopefully everybody listening that loves state parks. You you go ahead and pick one up. 01:17:18:18 - 01:17:21:19 Speaker 2 We're we're we're we're angling to get high as we can. 01:17:21:23 - 01:17:25:03 Speaker 1 Get a link out there for that on the, the show notes. 01:17:25:05 - 01:17:49:05 Speaker 2 In disclosure of my my wife. I've got the parks played on my wife's car. I've got the ag plate on my truck. So we we we we we do both, but no, it's, the but the greener initiative, you know, the e-bikes, but also electric power equipment. So blowers, weed eaters, everything at, at the parks, replacing lights. We've got electric boats now for the tours at the springs that are also accessible to the disabled that just were not before. 01:17:49:05 - 01:18:02:20 Speaker 2 They didn't have a wheelchair size ramps and and accessibility. So just the that kind of stuff that's like beyond the core mission of the park, but really elevate our game. That's what we're pursuing. And and that's so much fun. 01:18:02:23 - 01:18:03:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. 01:18:04:01 - 01:18:28:18 Speaker 2 Plus we get it. It's like a behind the scenes tours of of the Park system and After Dark tours. We did a great one at it Amelia Island. Yeah. There's a the the fort there right on the Saint Mary's, the park ranger, the, the head of the park there. They did a fantastic job. They had their guys come out and their their costume recreation costumes cooked us a dinner inside the fort in the old barracks, and we shot off a cannon. 01:18:28:19 - 01:18:37:17 Speaker 2 I mean, that was a that was a pretty cool night. That's like a top ten. Yeah. If you're really into Parks and Natural resources in Florida history like you could see, I think you can see why I enjoy. 01:18:37:23 - 01:18:54:06 Speaker 1 Up their ranks up there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, one of my grandfathers, when he retired from the Navy, joined the Park Service. And so I spent many, many a summer on various and sundry state parks throughout Florida and see Island and DeLeon Spring State Park in Volusia County and Felicia Balloon. 01:18:54:11 - 01:19:15:14 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, I steal it from Senator Jason Broder. He talked about it at our legislative reception this last, last spring. The parks are such a great, affordable way for every family in Florida to recreate. And for those of us that are really into the natural resources world, I talk a lot about how the parks are the gateway. 01:19:15:18 - 01:19:48:01 Speaker 2 You know, we've we've elevated the Florida Wildlife Corridor to really to raise the awareness, the public consciousness of landscape scale conservation and tying in all the various branches forest, wildlife, conservation, easements, district lands, everything. But the truth is, 90% of the public is going to interact with the resource through the gateway of the park. And so again, as we think about our role as being the CSO, the citizen support organization for the park system, how do we make sure that the Florida resident recognizes the value of the system? 01:19:48:02 - 01:20:07:05 Speaker 2 And how do we take this opportunity to educate the literally millions of tourists that go through our park system? If the park system were ranked as its own theme park against Disney Universal, it stacks up Wow as its own, as its own theme, as its own tourist attraction. When you add up the visitation at all 176. 01:20:07:07 - 01:20:12:15 Speaker 1 So more rides in that sense, though, than Disney at 176. 01:20:12:16 - 01:20:22:20 Speaker 2 That's true. But I mean that. But what an opportunity to educate. Yeah, all those tourists and new Floridians because we get a lot of people that are brand new. That's right. You know, they got it. Florida driver's license, but they've never seen an alligator. 01:20:22:21 - 01:20:42:12 Speaker 1 Little more controlled environment. And you know, get them used to you know what's what down here. Yeah I like it one other because I want to put it in the show notes regardless. Going back to family connections because I, you sent the you sent the email and you mentioned it. And you know, I like I said, I grew up in East Hillsborough County, like right next to Plant City in the Strawberry Festival. 01:20:42:12 - 01:20:53:06 Speaker 1 And so the Marshall Tucker Band, like when I was young and got a little older than you or a lot older, the Marshall Tucker Band was there a lot. I mean, fantastic band regardless. But there's a connection. There is. 01:20:53:09 - 01:21:17:15 Speaker 2 Yeah. This is a Neil Comey's favorite trivia fact about me. And that is, I think I put it wrong in the email toy. And Tommy Caldwell, the founding members of the Marshall Tucker Band, their daddy, Toy Caldwell, is my grandfather's first cousin. Okay, so I still remember their daddy toy. He would come through, I think, because I'm trying to remember one of them died in a motorcycle accident before I was born. 01:21:17:18 - 01:21:35:19 Speaker 2 The other one died in like 93, and I don't really remember him coming around, but definitely their dad did. And and he would talk about him and we'd be and you know, musically ish inclined. But yeah, really it's it's it's a cute little or neat little factoid about Spartanburg. 01:21:35:20 - 01:21:53:06 Speaker 1 I mean, it's one of my, my hottest music takes that I had, which is unless you're an orchestra, like a marching band or something like that, the Marshall Tucker Band is about the only thing I can imagine gets a pass for playing a flute in a black, and it sounds great. I mean, when they do it. Otherwise I don't approve. 01:21:53:08 - 01:22:03:08 Speaker 2 It's one of the I. I can usually feel pretty good about my singalong skills as well. Maybe. Maybe because there's a real close connection to the voice down there when it's when I. When I'm jamming out in the car. 01:22:03:11 - 01:22:20:09 Speaker 1 Well, I've taken a whole bunch of enjoyed every second of it, but I've got to give you at least, you know, 1 or 2 of these standard closing questions, you know, and I typically I know the answer already. It's like, but I want to hear you say it anyway. Are you optimistic about the future of Florida's environment? 01:22:20:10 - 01:22:48:03 Speaker 2 I can attest you give these questions to everybody. And I am you know, I remember growing up in the 80s at school, you were basically told all the manatees, all the bald eagles, all the the they're all going to be gone and the world's going to come to an end. Of course, now I got the privilege of, of, of chairing in the House is we're coming through a period where we have the most manatees we've ever had, the second highest concentration of bald eagles after Alaska is Florida, right? 01:22:48:03 - 01:23:08:14 Speaker 2 The alligator is the model of species restoration, recovery. You know where we struggled through the bear fight when I was there. But but again a this is a reflection. The reason we're fighting about this is because we have a lot of human bear conflict, because we have so many more bears than we did 30 years ago. And that's a testament to ecosystem health. 01:23:08:16 - 01:23:28:20 Speaker 2 And we're running the same thing with the Panther. I you know, I can tease the panther scientists a little bit about their projections. I, I think they're many, many, many more than, than they do. But, that's just, you know, I'm not a Panther scientist, so. But all that to say, I do think, at least terrestrially, yes, we still have a lot of issues to deal with in our water resources. 01:23:28:20 - 01:23:48:11 Speaker 2 There's no question about it. I think I really love to see our investment in the wildlife corridor to protect the one, the areas that are still pristine, the areas that are are challenged. I mean, it's just the reality in Southwest Florida, we we took a place and added nearly a million people. I mean, we are in the wintertime with all the tourists. 01:23:48:13 - 01:24:09:16 Speaker 2 We're already well over a million, million won that are driving around and having an impact on the ecosystem on the river. So you got to do a lot. And and there's just practical reality. Like you look at Manhattan, there's just some things you're not going to be able to do absent just making all the people leave. And it's just it's like the bigger picture of Everglades restoration. 01:24:09:18 - 01:24:29:08 Speaker 2 Everything west of I-95 in South Florida, there's 3 million people that live there. That's the New Orleans of Florida. Every acre of that land was in the Sawgrass Marsh a a hundred years ago. Right? I mean, in, in in the flood in 47, there was six feet of water in the courthouse in downtown Fort Lauderdale. Those 3 million people aren't going anywhere. 01:24:29:08 - 01:24:50:08 Speaker 2 So people will come, you know, say, oh, I want to restore the Everglades. Okay. What version? Right. If you want this to look like 1850, then you're tilting at windmills, because that means literally 8 million people got to get up and leave. That's not going to happen. So now if we accept that as a premise, okay, what do we want this to look like? 01:24:50:08 - 01:25:06:10 Speaker 2 And how do we want this ecosystem to function? Of course, that is as healthy as possible in a way that is is feasible. Like we can actually achieve it within this generation. And and so I'm optimistic. I mean, there's so many things we've been able to get done because we said we're not going to wait on the feds anymore. 01:25:06:10 - 01:25:25:15 Speaker 2 Right? We we've we've built a dozen or more projects that have been stalled out. You know, when I, when I got into office, we had not finished a single Serp project in almost 30 years of tilting at it, like Kissimmee River. Restoration started in the 1970s, and we didn't finish phase one until I almost was out of out of the house. 01:25:25:17 - 01:25:41:12 Speaker 2 So but we, you know, the bridge on 41 finally got built. Yeah. Right. Like so you look at the projects they're getting done, the more we get the projects done, the more that the Everglades ecosystem is going to respond positively. And and the, the, you know, the better it's going to be. 01:25:41:13 - 01:25:55:13 Speaker 1 Yeah. For the young person out there who are taking the the intellectual detours that, that you did when, when you were younger. What advice do you give someone who's trying to figure it out? 01:25:55:14 - 01:26:24:21 Speaker 2 A couple of things. And it's true, no matter what endeavors you are engaged in. First of all, I'm a huge fan of Jim Collins is good to great and and his example of being on the bus and wanting to go to the destination where the bus is headed. Now, normally you read that as, as the employer and, and it's telling you you need to get a grip and, you know, you got to fire people that aren't dedicated to the mission of the organization because they're not going on on they're not going to the destination this bus is headed. 01:26:24:21 - 01:26:41:22 Speaker 2 And the sooner you get off, the better for them and the better for you. But the same is true as the employee. If you're riding on a bus that's not headed where you want to go, you need to get off. You shouldn't wait until your your boss comes and tells you this isn't for you. Go get on a bus that's headed where you where you think you want to go. 01:26:42:00 - 01:26:54:17 Speaker 2 And doesn't mean you got to know exactly what it is. We've all been there. You remember being 18, 19, like, what are you going to do with your life? I don't know what I'm going to do with my life. I'm just figuring it out every day at a time. But the other thing is very simple. It's not complicated. 01:26:54:19 - 01:27:12:03 Speaker 2 Do what you say you're going to do and do the best you can with what you're given. So my my mom's dad put me to work when I was 13 at the bank. I would polish the safe deposit boxes. I would shred the old kind of dubious thinking back 13 years old with the industrial shredder, the old records. 01:27:12:05 - 01:27:26:23 Speaker 2 But he sent me upstairs once to this kind of storage room, empty office, and he said, hey, move all these boxes to the other side of the room. I move all the boxes, move them over to the other side. I come back down. All right, I did. It didn't take me any time at all. He goes back up and looks at looks good, move him back. 01:27:27:01 - 01:27:44:20 Speaker 2 And I was incredulous as any 13 year old is. And he said no. The point is, you need to do the best job with the the task you're assigned. And sometimes that means doing exactly what your boss tells you to do, even though you don't think it makes any sense. And the same is true then with your with your like. 01:27:44:21 - 01:28:08:04 Speaker 2 I think of the client interaction as a appraiser because you, you just you serve the the customer. I, I really bring I really emphasize that in my role now as property appraiser. Yeah, we're a public agency. But but our customers who matters? Their experience interacting with our office is what matters. We work for them. We need to deliver to the best of our ability the results that that they expect. 01:28:08:04 - 01:28:23:10 Speaker 2 If we can't do the thing they're asking, then we need to be honest with them about it, not hide the ball. But if there's any way that we can, then we need to and we need to deliver deliver on that promise. So, you know, again, do do the best you can with what you're given. And it's amazing the opportunities that will present themselves. 01:28:23:12 - 01:28:28:00 Speaker 1 It's great advice. Matt Caldwell it's so generous for your time. Thanks a lot. 01:28:28:01 - 01:28:30:18 Speaker 2 Appreciate it. This is fantastic I appreciate it Brett. 01:28:30:20 - 01:28:53:13 Speaker 3 Well that's it for this episode. Thanks for listening to water for fighting. And thank you once again, Torres and seeing shoreline for making it possible. If you're enjoying the show, please be sure to subscribe on whatever platform you use. And don't forget to leave a five star rating and review. You can follow the show on LinkedIn and Instagram at the Water Pod, and you can reach me directly at Ethel Water Pod at gmail.com. 01:28:53:19 - 01:29:13:20 Speaker 3 Send me your comments and suggestions for who and or what you'd like to know more about production. This podcast is by Lonely Fox Studios. Thanks to Carl Soren for making the best of what he had to work with, and in David Barfield for the amazing graphics and technical assistance. A very special thank you goes out to Bo Spring from the Bo Spring Band for giving permission to use his music for the podcast. 01:29:13:23 - 01:29:29:06 Speaker 3 The song is called Doing Work for free, and you should check out the band live wherever great music is sold. Join me next time for another amazing conversation with someone who has helped shape water and environmental policy in the Sunshine State. Until then, keep your whiskey close and your water closer.